[00:00:01]
GENTLEMEN, 6 33.WE'RE GONNA START THE, UM, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 19TH, 2026.
ANYBODY LIKE TO DO THE INVOCATION? WILL MS. FORTNER, YOU'RE THE BEST AT IT.
THANK YOU, LORD, FOR THIS TIME TOGETHER.
AND, UH, THANK YOU THAT WE'RE ABLE TO REPRESENT OUR COMMUNITY THAT, UH, WATCH OVER OUR DECISION MAKING, THAT IT, UM, REFLECTS THE VALUES THAT WE HAVE IN DICKINSON.
AND, UH, WATCH OVER THOSE PEOPLE THAT, UH, ARE ALL OVER THE WORLD, UH, MAKING SURE WE CAN DO THAT.
PHIL, WOULD YOU LIKE TO LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE, SIR? PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG.
THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE TEXAS ONE STATE UNDER GOD, ONE AND INDIVISIBLE.
[3. ANNOUNCEMENTS AND PRESENTATIONS]
I APPRECIATE IT.UH, WE'RE GONNA GO TO ANNOUNCEMENTS AND PRESENTATIONS.
PHIL, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY, SIR? NO.
UH, IT WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION AS WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, UH, THE PEOPLE ON THE, UH, THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.
UH, IT WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION THAT ONE OF OUR MEMBERS AS, UM, DOESN'T REALLY WANT TO CONTINUE DOING IT.
AND PHIL, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
YOU HAVE BEEN AN INVALUABLE MEMBER.
YOU ARE THE ONE PERSON I HAVE COUNTED ON A HUNDRED PERCENT.
I KNOW PHIL HAS READ EVERYTHING.
BUT I DO APPRECIATE YOUR TIME, SIR, AND I UNDERSTAND, UH, PROBABLY TIME FOR HAVING SOME GRANDKID FUN, RIGHT? EXACTLY.
BUT, UH, WE DO APPRECIATE YOU, SIR, VERY MUCH.
SO WE MOVE TO PUBLIC COMMENTS AND I DO NOT HAVE ANYBODY, IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE THAT DIDN'T SIGN UP THAT'S INTERESTED? NONE.
UH, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ON THE CONSENT AGENDA.
[7. NEW BUSINESS]
STRAIGHT DOWN TO NUMBER SEVEN.I FEEL LIKE I'M ONE STEP SHORT OF SAYING ANYBODY WANNA TO DANCE
BLOCK 3 0 2 NICKEL STONE FROM SUBSECTION 18 DASH THREE.
8.6 WAIVER REQUIREMENT OF THE CITY OF DICKINSON UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE WITH SUCH WAIVER ALLOWING A LOT WITH A 50 FEET FOR THREE, LOTS TO BE RE PLATTED FOR A PURPOSED MULTI LOT DEVELOPMENT FOR APPROXIMATELY 0.41 ACRES PARCEL 1 8 3 6 9 7 LOCATED AT THE CORNER OF COLORADO AVENUE AND EAST 39TH STREET, AND LEGALLY DESCRIBED AS ABSTRACT 78 R HALL LOTS, 13 THROUGH 18.
BLOCK 3 0 2 NICKEL STONE DRIVE.
SO THIS IS A PROPERTY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION, UH, ZONING DISTRICT.
SO THIS IS ONE WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT THAT THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS REQUIRED THAT THE LOTS BE THE AVERAGE OF THE BLOCK FACE.
AND SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHERE THIS PROPERTY IS, THE AVERAGE OF THE BLOCK THAT IT IS ON, UH, THE LOTS ARE MUCH LARGER THAN MIGHT NOT HAVE A FULL AERIAL.
THE LOTS ARE MUCH LARGER THAN THESE 50 FOOT WIDE LOTS THAT THE DEVELOPER IS PROPOSING.
UH, SO THAT THE WIDTH THAT WE COME OUT TO ON WHEN STAFF CALCULATES THE AVERAGE OF THE BLOCK FACE, UH, FOR THIS AREA IS 85.7 FEET.
UH, SO HE IS REQUESTING 50 FEET LOTS, UH, WHICH IS WITHIN THE THRESHOLD TO REQUEST THE WAIVER, UH, FOR CONTEXT THAT THAT WOULD END UP WITH THREE LOTS THAT ARE 50 BY ONE 20.
UH, SO THAT IS A 6,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT, FAIRLY TYPICAL SIZE, YOU KNOW, SINGLE FAMILY LOT, NOT REALLY BIG, NOT REALLY SMALL, UH, KIND OF THE MIDDLE.
UH, SO HE DID PROVIDE, TRAVIS, MAY I ASK YOU A QUESTION BEFORE YOU JUMP OFF OF THAT PAGE RIGHT THERE? ABSOLUTELY.
THE LOTS YOU'RE REFERRING TO, ARE THEY COMPARABLE IN SIZE TO THE ONES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RIGHT OF WAY IN THIS PICTURE? YES.
AND I HAVE A, I HAVE A PROPOSED ONE OF THOSE.
[00:05:03]
YEP.SO THIS IS A PARTIAL AS A AERIAL VIEW AS IT SITS.
AND THIS IS WHAT THE DEVELOPER IS PROPOSING.
THEY ARE 50 FOOT WIDE LOTS, PRETTY MUCH LIKE THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE STREET.
UH, I THINK IT'S A VERY GOOD ARGUMENT THAT WE ARE KEEPING THE CHARACTER OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, WITH THESE LOTS.
THIS IS NOT GONNA BE A DENSE DEVELOPMENT, UH, IN A UNDEVELOPED AREA OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
THIS IS A PROPOSED ARCHITECTURAL VIEW OF THE HOME.
IT WILL HAVE, YOU KNOW, PARKING FOR TWO VEHICLES.
AND THIS IS THE PROPOSED FLOOR PLAN.
AND SO I BELIEVE IT'S 30 FEET WIDE.
SO, UH, 10 FEET ON EACH SIDE, YOU KNOW, PLENTY FOR DRAINAGE AND SETBACKS.
CAN WE TALK NOW OR YOU GOT YES MA'AM.
UH, HOW ARE, HOW ARE THEY GOING TO DEAL WITH THE, UM, GETTING IN AND OUT OF THE HOUSES? I MEAN MM-HMM
UH, I MEAN, SO GOOD NEWS IS THE AREA ON THE EDGES OF THE HOME IS GONNA BE ABOUT 10 FEET.
UH, SO THAT IS MORE THAN THE REQUIRED SIDE SETBACK, UH, FOR THE ZONING DISTRICT.
UH, YOU KNOW, ADDITIONALLY, THE ONLY REASON THEY SHOULD REALLY NEED TO ACCESS THE REAR IS FOR MAINTENANCE.
ALL THE PARKING WILL BE IN THE FRONT.
UH, WE'LL HAVE A PAVED DRIVEWAY AND I BELIEVE THE HOUSE IS NEXT TO EACH OTHER WOULD EQUAL 20 FEET BETWEEN THEM.
SO WOULD EVEN BE ABLE TO DRIVE A TRUCK BETWEEN 'EM, I RECKON.
OH, IT'S, IT'S HARD TO TELL WITH, UH, IT'S SO WOODED, BUT IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT'S VERY NARROW.
THIS IS IN, UH, MAN, YOU'D THINK I WOULD REMEMBER WHAT THESE, UH, ZONES ARE, BUT MANY TIMES WE TALKED ABOUT IT.
YOU JUST SAID NEIGHBORHOOD CON CONSERVATION.
I GUESS MY QUESTION KIND OF GOES BACK TO THE, THE IMAGE THAT YOU WERE SHOWING WHERE THE THREE ABOVE IT, HOW IS THIS NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF IT? 'CAUSE THE LOT ITSELF, I GUESS ZOOMING OUT, 'CAUSE I'M LOOKING AT THE THREE NORTH OF IT, ONE TO THE WEST OF IT.
IT'S AT, IT'S, IT'S NOT, DOESN'T IT THE AVERAGE? IT'S NOT THE AVERAGE.
IT'S, IT'S NOT BECAUSE THE AVERAGE IS, UH, ON 39TH STREET AVERAGE IS 85 FEET, NOT 50.
AND THERE'S A FAIRLY NEWISH HOUSE ON THE ONE SIDE.
AND REMEMBER WHEN IT, THE DEFINITION OF BLOCK FACE WOULD BE FROM THIS POINT ON 39TH STREET TO THIS POINT.
AH, SO WHEN YOU FACTOR IN ALL THESE LOTS, THIS ONE PROBABLY SKEWS IT A LITTLE BIT.
THIS ONE'S A LITTLE BIT WIDER, AND THIS ONE'S A LITTLE WIDER.
SO THE COMBINATION OF REALLY THESE FOUR LOTS IS WHAT, BUT THE 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, THOSE DON'T MAN ON THE RIGHT SIDE, DO YOU MEAN? YEAH.
UM, I'M THINKING ABOUT JUST DO NORTH OF THEM.
AND THEN OVER THERE ON THE, THE NORTHWEST SIDE, THERE'S A COUPLE, THREE LOTS THAT ARE RELATIVELY SMALL ALSO.
AND I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND WE HAVE TO HAVE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE UNITS OF MEASURE.
I HATE THAT WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS FOR THIS LOT KNOWING FULL WELL THAT THAT IS THE BIGGEST LOT IN THE WHOLE AREA.
AND I MEAN, IF IT WAS ON THE BLOCKS ABOVE IT, ABOVE 38TH, I'D SAY MAYBE, BUT THEN YOU LOOK AT THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF 39TH.
THESE ARE STILL BIGGER LOTS THAN WHAT'S ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF 39TH.
AND AGAIN, I KNOW WE HAVE TO HAVE UNITS OF MEASURE, NOT HATING, HATING THE GAME, SO TO SPEAK.
BUT, UH, YEAH, THAT'S IT ALMOST RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF SEMANTICS.
I, I HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO SAY.
UH, THAT'S WHY I THINK IT'S DEFINITELY A GOOD ARGUMENT THAT THIS IS KEEPING THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS, UH, THE INTENT OF THIS ZONING DISTRICT, UH, JUST FOR, YOU KNOW, PROCEDURAL REASONS.
IS, IS THIS IS THE ONLY AREA THAT WE CAN CONSIDER WHEN CALCULATING THE BLOCK PHASE.
UH, IS THIS SIDE OF THE STREET.
TRAVIS, CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION? I'M SORRY, DEBORAH, GO AHEAD.
I WAS JUST GONNA MAKE A MOTION THIS PROCESS.
ARE YOU THE, THE, THE GENTLEMAN I'M, WHAT DOES IT COST HIM TO ASK US TO APPROVE THIS FOR REPLANTING? UH, THIS PLAT WAIVER I, I BELIEVE WAS A HUNDRED DOLLARS.
WELL, I DON'T LIKE IT, BUT AGAIN, KIND, I'LL GIVE YOU MY APOLOGIES FOR WHATEVER THAT'S WORTH, SIR.
UM, BUT AGAIN, WE HAVE TO HAVE, WE GOTTA HAVE RULES.
[00:10:01]
PLAT.IS THERE ANY MORE COMMENTS? PHIL? WHAT IS THE MOTION? MOTION IS TO APPROVE, UH, THAT WE APPROVE THE, UH, THREE LOTS.
UM, WE HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND.
ENJOY BUILDING SOME BEAUTIFUL HOMES.
ALL RIGHT, MOVING TO ITEM EIGHT.
HOW ABOUT SEVEN B DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE ACTION TO RECOMMEND AMENDMENTS TO THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND OR ZONING MAP? QUESTION? WAS THAT THE RIGHT STATEMENT? 'CAUSE YOU SAY AND OR ZONING MAP WE FINISHED WITH THE ZONING MAP.
PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN JUST UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE.
SIR, WE ARE JUST DONE DISCUSSING ZONING MAP AT THIS TIME.
JUST, JUST ONE QUESTION TO MAKE SURE I DIDN'T MISS SOMETHING.
GO AHEAD TRAVIS, IF YOU WOULD, SIR.
SO BEFORE WE GET TOO DEEP IN THIS, I DO WANNA MAKE ONE POINT, UH, THAT WILL PROBABLY PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT.
UH, I DID HAVE DISCUSSION WITH CITY MANAGER THIS WEEK, UH, AND HE INFORMED ME THAT CITY COUNCIL, UH, IS REQUESTING ANOTHER JOINT WORKSHOP WITH, UH, P AND Z.
UH, SO WE ARE TENTATIVELY SCHEDULING THAT FOR THE FIRST MEETING IN JUNE.
I BELIEVE THAT, IS THAT THE NINTH? NINTH JUNE? YEP.
UH, SO THAT IS THE FIRST OR THE SECOND TUESDAY IN JUNE THE NINTH.
UH, SO JUST SOME CONTEXT ON THAT.
UH, LAST MEETING WE DID DISCUSS THAT WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT ARTICLES ONE THROUGH THREE TODAY.
UH, SO I DO HAVE JUST THREE ITEMS THAT STAFF HAS IDENTIFIED THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT, UH, IN THIS, UH, THREE ARTICLES.
UH, BUT IF Y'ALL HAVE ANYTHING IN THE FIRST PART, I'M OPEN TO DISCUSSING THAT.
UM, IT'S FUNNY THAT YOU BROUGHT THE FENCE 'CAUSE THAT WAS ACTUALLY SOMETHING I OBSERVED IN ALL OF THE DESCRIPTIONS TO A DEGREE.
UM, WHERE THE, I THINK THE REAR END IS LIMITED TO SIX FEET MM-HMM
WHICH, UH, I THINK MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR HAS AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE BETWEEN US BECAUSE HE HAD DOGS THAT COULD JUMP A SIX FOOT FENCE.
AND, AND IT IS A, HEY, WELL, HELLO.
IF YOU WOULD PUT IT ON THE RECORD THAT MS. MARJORIE MORGAN HAS JOINED US NEXT TIME SHE'LL HAVE TO BRING FOOD.
IF THAT'S
UM, YEAH, I, I KIND OF AGREE THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE, UH, REQUIREMENTS TO SOME DEGREE.
I WOULDN'T WANT SOMEBODY PUTTING A A 30 FOOT WALL UP BETWEEN HIM AND HIS NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE BECAUSE THEY WERE MAD AT EACH OTHER.
UH, I THINK SIX FEET IS KIND OF LIMITING.
UH, I'M PERSONALLY HAVE A RECOMMENDATION SOMEWHERE BETWEEN SIX AND 10 FEET.
IF I CANING EXPAND ON THAT, UH, JUST A LITTLE BIT.
UH, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE'S AN AREA OF THE UEC THAT, YOU KNOW, STATES THAT ALL FRONT YARD FENCES, UH, SHALL BE NO MORE THAN FOUR FEET.
UH, AND SO THAT IS KIND OF GEARED LIKE MORE TOWARDS THE COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS.
THE COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICTS ALLOW A TALLER FENCE IN THE FRONT YARD, AND THEN THE RESIDENTIAL IS RESTRICTED TO THREE.
SO IF WE'RE LOOKING TO CHANGE, UH, OVER FOUR, WE NEED TO CHANGE IT IN TWO SPOTS, RIGHT.
AND SO QUICK, QUICK QUESTION ON THAT.
BECAUSE IN MY HEAD I NATURALLY, WHEN I THINK FENCES, I'M THINKING GOOD OLD DICKINSON, PRIVACY WOODEN FENCES.
I'M ALSO THINKING OF CHAIN LINK FENCES AND ALL THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.
UM, WHAT IF I JUST HAPPENED TO HAVE A YARD AND I DECIDED TO HAVE A VERY NICE WROUGHT IRON FENCE AND I WANTED TO GATE MY DRIVEWAY? MM-HMM
WOULD THAT BE IN VIOLATION OF THAT, UH, CODE RIGHT THERE? UH, SO AT THIS TIME, IF YOU WERE TO DO THAT, WE WOULD HAVE TO REQUIRE IT TO BE THREE FEET TALL AND PROVIDE THE 50% TRANSPARENCY.
SO YOU COULD DO IT, BUT IT WOULD BE LIMITED TO THREE HEIGHT.
AND KIND OF WHAT, WHAT IT SPEAKS TO IS, I THINK PREVIOUS ORDINANCE, UH, KIND OF SPOKE TO ANY PART OF THE FENCE THAT IS IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE, HAD TO MEET THESE REQUIREMENTS.
AND THE UDC HAS KIND OF REFINED IT TO ONLY THE FRONT SETBACK.
IT'S ACTUALLY FRONT AND CORNER SETBACK.
SO IF YOUR FRONT SETBACK IS 25 FEET, BUT YOUR HOUSE IS 50 FEET BACK BY THE LETTER OF WHAT THIS STATES, YOU WOULD ONLY HAVE TO DO THE FIRST 25 FEET AND THE THREE FEET AND THE 50% TRANSPARENCY, THAT'S ALL THAT
AND SO, ON TOP OF THAT A LITTLE BIT, UH, ON BUILDING CODE WISE, OUT OF ORDINANCE IS THAT WE REQUIRE ANY STRUCTURE OVER SIX FOOT SIX, UH, BE ENGINEERED TO WITHSTAND THE WIND SPEED.
UH, SO THAT INCLUDES FENCES AS WELL.
ONCE YOU GO OVER SIX FOOT SIX, UH, THAT TRIGGERS US TO REQUIRE YOU TO PROVIDE US SOME ENGINEER DETAIL OF HOW YOU'RE
[00:15:01]
GONNA DO THAT FENCE.THOSE FENCES ARE ALREADY PRETTY DAMN EXPENSIVE.
I JUST MADE 'EM A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE.
UH, SO THE SIX FOOT SIX IS KIND OF, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN DO A SIX FOOT WITH A ROCK BOARD AT THE BOTTOM.
AND, UH, AND THAT'S, THAT'S PRETTY EASY REQUIREMENT.
BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S A, A BAD IDEA IS TO HAVE KIND OF, UH, TOP TWO THINGS AND RULES TO THINGS.
I LOVE THE CONCEPT OF IT AND THE INTENT, BUT WHERE, AND I THINK EVERYBODY HERE HAS LIVED IN DICKINSON, IN THE GULF COAST LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW I COULD HAVE A FOUR FOOT FENCE OR A 10 FOOT FENCE.
AND DEPENDING ON HOW OLD IT IS, HOW ROTTED MY FOUR BY FOURS ARE, AS WHETHER THE WIND'S GONNA TAKE IT TO THE GROUND, I COULD HAVE A REALLY, REALLY NICE FOUR FOOT FENCE THAT'S ROTTED RIGHT AT THE GROUND.
AND SO I APPRECIATE WHAT THE PREMISE BEHIND A WINDSTORM RATING.
I JUST DON'T PUT ANY VALUE TO IT.
'CAUSE UNLESS THEY TELL US THAT WE CAN'T BUILD WOODEN FENCES, WE HAVE TO HAVE STEEL OR FIBERGLASS POLES FOR ALL OF OUR FENCES, IT'S A MOOT POINT.
THAT STUFF'S GONNA ROT AWAY OVER A PERIOD OF TIME.
AND THEN WHATEVER WINDSTORM RATING YOU HAVE, YOU DON'T GET WINDSTORM.
WELL, YOU CAN GET A WINDSTORM INSURANCE ON IT, BUT THAT'S NATURALLY COVERED ANYWAY.
UNDER A FOUR FOOT FENCE, SIX FOOT FENCE, 10 FOOT FENCE, IT'S STILL COVERED BY YOUR WINDSTORM INSURANCE WITH NO WINDSTORM STAMP.
I'VE, I'VE REPLACED SEVERAL OF MY FENCES THAT HISTORICALLY JUST WERE WHAT THEY WERE REALLY, AND I'VE SEEN MANY OF THE FENCES PUT BACK THAT I'M LIKE, YEAH, THAT FENCE IS JUST GONNA FALL APART IN ABOUT THREE YEARS.
SO WHAT DO WE GET TO DO HERE? SO WE SHOULD ONE, CHOOSE THE HEIGHT OF THE FENCE IN THE FRONT YARDS THAT Y'ALL WOULD PREFER, AND ALSO THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT FOR THE REST OF THE YARD.
UH, THE, THE ONLY REASON I THREW IN THE ENGINEERING FACT IS, IS GOTCHA.
SO QUESTION FOR YOU, IF YOU, UH, HAVE A ST A SAY THREE FEET HIGH IN THE FRONT IS A POSSIBILITY, BUT ALLOW, CAN YOU THEN ALLOW FOR A GATE IN, IN FRONT OF YOUR, UM, DRIVEWAY THAT THAT'S LARGER THAN THAT? UH, SO THE THREE FOOT TECHNICALLY WOULD APPLY TO ALL THE FENCING, INCLUDING THE GATE.
BY THE WAY, LADIES, GENTLEMEN, I JUST WANT TO PUT THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE.
YOU'RE LOOKING AT ABOUT THREE FOOT RIGHT HERE, 36 INCHES MM-HMM
WELL, IN, IN ORDER TO DO THAT, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE A GATE IN FRONT OF YOUR DEAL.
WELL, AND THAT'S, AND AGAIN, I, I APPRECIATE THE PREMISE BEHIND IT, BUT I THINK WE'RE PUTTING LIMITATIONS ON OUR, OUR CITIZENS THAT ARE KIND OF BS.
IT'S KINDA LIKE THAT GUY HAVING TO PAY A HUNDRED BUCKS FOR SOMETHING THAT, I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE WRONG BY ANY MEANS.
I UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS, BUT WHAT WE SAY IS WHAT WE HAVE TO FOLLOW.
AND THERE'S A GUY AT THE END OF MY STREET ON THE RIGHT SIDE, HAS A BEAUTIFUL, PROBABLY SIX FOOT WROUGHT IRON FENCE ACROSS THE ENTIRE FRONT OF HIS HOUSE.
HE HAS LITTLE KIDS AND DOGS AND HE DOESN'T WANT THEM RUNNING OUT IN THE STREET.
SO HE PUT A REALLY BEAUTIFUL FENCE THAT NOBODY IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD HAS ANY BEEF WITH IT NOW.
WELL, THE TRANSPARENCY PART IS, IS A BIG THING, ISN'T IT? SURE.
I MEAN, THAT'S A WR IRON FENCE FROM THE FENCE.
I MEAN THAT, I MEAN, I DON'T, I DON'T PERSONALLY HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH THE HEIGHT AS MUCH AS THE TRANSPARENCY.
I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT.
THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD WAY TO PUT IT.
AND TRAVIS, HELP ME ON HERE LANGUAGE.
UH, I DON'T LIKE THE THREE FOOT LIMIT.
UM, I THINK FOR THE FRONT, AND AGAIN, SOMEWHERE BETWEEN SIX AND 10 FEET IS I THINK, REALISTIC.
UH, YOU KNOW, I'VE, I'VE SEEN PEOPLE WITH BEAUTIFUL FRONT FENCES ON THEIR, ON GATES, WHICH A GATE IS PART OF A FENCE.
SO THAT'S WHERE I SAY, YOU KNOW, NO MORE THAN 10 WOULD REQUIRE 50% TRANSPARENCY.
YOU KNOW, IF A GUY WANTS TO PUT A CHAIN LINK FENCE ACROSS THE FRONT OF HIS HOUSE, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S MORE BETWEEN HIM AND HIS HOA THAN IT IS BETWEEN HIM AND THE CITY.
WELL, I DON'T HAVE ONE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD.
BUT, BUT I, I DON'T SEE WHERE IT'S, THE CITY SHOULD BE ABLE TO SAY THAT.
AND LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THAT'S JUST BRUCE ANDERSON.
BY ALL MEANS, WILL YOU GOT AN OPINION? ANYBODY'S MORE THAN WELCOME TO SHUT ME DOWN ON THIS.
I'M FINE WITH THE TRANSPARENCY COMPONENT.
HOW ABOUT YOU, PHIL? 50% TRANSPARENCY IS GOOD FOR THIS FRONT, BUT, UH, THE REARING THE SIDE, UH, THEY SHOULD BE, SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE PRIVACY.
SO LET ME ASK THE, THE GROUP HERE, 'CAUSE THE, THE QUESTION SEEMS TO BE, I THINK WE ALL AGREE SIDES AND BACKS DOESN'T
[00:20:01]
REQUIRE YOU CAN HAVE PRIVACY FENCES X, Y, Z THE FRONT.I AGREE WITH 50% TRANSPARENCY.
UH, I THINK THE BIG QUESTION ON THIS ENTIRE PARAGRAPH RIGHT HERE COMES BACK TO, UH, THE, THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT ALLOWED.
AND I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY, I DON'T WANT TO DIGRESS A LITTLE BIT, TRAVIS, BUT IS, YOU'RE SAYING SOMEWHERE IN THE UDC IT STATES ANY STRUCTURE OVER SIX FOOT SIX REQUIRES WINDSTORM RATING? UH, THAT IS ACTUALLY, THAT IS ACTUALLY NOT IN THE UDC, THAT IS IN THE MUNI CODE BUILDING, UH, SECTION ORDINANCE THAT, THAT'S BEEN IN ORDINANCE FOR A FEW YEARS NOW.
AND WE HAVE THE CHOICE TO PRES RESPOND TO THAT.
UH, SO THE TEXT AMENDMENTS ARE, ARE CONCERNING THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
UH, SO THE ACTUAL BUILDING CODE ORDINANCE WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH COUNCIL IS IS A SEPARATE ZONING, SEPARATE DOCUMENT.
I MEAN, WE CAN SET A FIGURE AND THEN IF PEOPLE WANT TO DEAL WITH IT, THEY'LL DEAL WITH IT.
I THINK WE ARE ABOUT SIX FOOT PICKET WITH A, MAYBE A 10 INCH ROCK BOARD AT THE BOTTOM, BRING IT UP TO ABOUT SEVEN FEET.
BUT THAT'S STILL, ACCORDING TO WHAT TRAVIS JUST SAID, REQUIRES THAT YOU HAVE A WINDSTORM CERTIFICATE ON IT.
I MEAN THAT'S SO, SO THEY, THAT'S, THAT'S A SECONDARY CONCERN AS TRAVIS JUST EXPLAINED.
SO THEY, IT'S NOT ACTUALLY PART OF THIS.
I WOULD LIKE THERE TO BE A NOTE SOMEWHERE THAT SAYS, I WOULD LIKE FOR COUNSEL TO FRICKING HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT.
THE CONCEPT BEHIND THE SIX FOOT SIX IS AN EXCELLENT CONCEPT.
I AGREE WITH IT A HUNDRED PERCENT.
EXCEPT FOR WHEN IT COMES TO FENCES.
ON FENCES IS THE ONE THING THAT I'M LIKE, IT'S JUST NOT APPLICABLE.
BUT IF YOU DON'T PUT THAT CAVEAT IN THERE TO SAY, FENCES ARE NOT RELEVANT.
'CAUSE AGAIN, TWIA DOES NOT REQUIRE A STAMP ON A FENCE.
AND AGAIN, YOU CAN BUILD A FENCE, SIX FOOT, THREE FOOT, 10 FOOT, WHATEVER IT COULD BLOW OVER DEPENDING ON HOW LONG IT'S BEEN THERE AND HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE POURED GRASS KILLER AROUND THE, THE POSTS.
SO THAT'S WHERE I SAY I, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE, AND THIS IS COMPLETELY NON-RELEVANT TO THIS CONVERSATION, I APOLOGIZE, BUT I WOULD LIKE THAT TO BE A POINT OF, UH, CONCERN CONVERSATIONALLY WITH THE CITY.
BUT, UM, SO WHERE, IGNORING THAT DETAIL, WHERE ARE WE
'CAUSE THE SMALLEST CHAIN LINK YOU'RE GONNA GET IS THREE FOOT, BUT THE AVERAGE IS GONNA BE FOUR FOOT.
BUT IF YOU WANNA DO WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, UM, ROD IRON, IF YOU WANT A ROT IRON THAT'S GOTTA BE BIGGER THAN FOUR FEET.
SO YOU WOULD JUST SAY BLANKET IT, I SIX FOOT, I'M, I'M FINE WITH THE 10 FOOT AS LONG AS 50%.
I, I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT BEING BECAUSE THAT, I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE GONNA, THEY CAN MAKE GOOD DECISIONS WITH REGARD TO THAT, YOU KNOW THAT SO MM-HMM
ARE WE THERE? CAN WE MOVE? SO TRAVIS RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS PERMIT A FRONT YARD FENCE OF UP TO 10 FEET IN HIGH, BUT REQUIRES 50% TRANSPARENCY.
AND THE HEIGHT HIDE AND REAR FENCES ARE LIMITED TO 10 FEET OR LESS.
DO WE WANT TO CARRY THAT REQUIREMENT AROUND? THAT'S FINE.
'CAUSE MINE'S NOT SIX FOOT
AND AGAIN, IT WAS PUT THERE NOT JUST BECAUSE OF ARROGANCE OR ANYTHING, THEY HAD DOGS THAT COULD JUMP A SIX FOOT FENCE.
AND LIKE I SAID, I'VE GOT A NEIGHBOR WITH A BEAUTIFUL FRONT YARD FENCE THAT'S PROBABLY ABOUT SEVEN FOOT.
AND HE HAS HAD LITTLE KIDS AND HE HAD PUPS.
SO, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE WE'RE THERE.
KEEP A CAPABILITY FOR OUR CITIZENS TO MAKE A DECISION.
ONE, UH, ONE MORE NOTE I DID WANNA MAKE ON THE FRONT YARD FENCES, UH, PREVIOUS ZONING ORDINANCE DID REQUIRE, UH, THAT THE FRONT YARD FENCE HAVE A THREE FOOT SETBACK FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.
UH, I JUST WANTED TO BRING THAT UP FOR NOTE FOR DISCUSSION.
IF, IF THAT IS, UH, SOMETHING YOU'RE ALL INTERESTED IN.
THINGS I COULD SEE ARE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'S EASIER TO MAINTAIN THE RIGHT OF WAY IF, IF THE FENCE IS BUILT RIGHT UP ON THE OPEN DITCH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
WHAT DID YOU SAY? HOW MANY FEET? THREE FEET.
AND THAT'S WHAT EXISTED IN PREVIOUS ORDINANCE THAT DIDN'T CARRY OVER TO, TO, UH, THE UDC.
SO IF WE WANNA BRING IT BACK, I KNOW, I THINK MR. EDMONDS HAD BROUGHT THAT UP A FEW TIMES AS WELL.
HONESTLY, I'M KIND OF GOING, OKAY, ONLY THREE.
'CAUSE I KNOW OUR CITY, MOST OF OUR CITY IS DRAINAGE IS DITCHES.
YOU GOTTA HAVE IT MORE THAN THREE FEET BACK.
ARE YOU GONNA PUT IT IN THE MIDDLE OF A DITCH? AND THAT'S UNACCEPTABLE.
[00:25:01]
FINE.UM, SO HELP ME OUT HERE ON SOMETHING, TRAVIS, IN LOOKING AT, UH, GOLLY.
IS THIS THE WAY WE WANTED TO GO THROUGH THIS? I GUESS IT WAS IN SECTION TWO WHEN ALL OF OUR DIMENSIONS WERE BROUGHT UP IN THERE.
UM, THERE IS, IT'S STILL ON FENCES AND IT SEEMED TO RECALL THAT ON COMMERCIAL, UM, AND EVEN AUTOCENTRIC AND ONE OTHER ONES, THERE WERE FENCE REQUIREMENTS THAT WERE PRETTY SHORT.
FRONT SIDE, EIGHT FEET CORNER.
WHAT IS A CORNER YARD? THERE'S A GRAPHIC FOR THAT.
UM, I THOUGHT THERE WAS A GRAPHIC FOR IT.
F SO THIS IS F IF YOU'RE ON A CORNER LOT.
SO, SO THEY CAN SEE WHAT'S COMING AT THEM.
BUT IF I TOOK WHERE, WHERE THE D LINE IS IN THIS IMAGE MM-HMM
IF I WANTED TO GO FROM THAT CORNER TO THE STREET, IS THAT A CORNER FENCE? THAT THAT IS FRONT YARD? THAT WOULD BE FRONT YARD.
IT'S CORNER IS ESSENTIALLY TO THE SIDE.
BUT FROM G, THAT FULL LENGTH OF G IS CONSIDERED BACKYARD.
IT'S REAR FROM THIS BACK CORNER.
SO THE PORTION, BUT WHERE IS THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE IS KIND OF, I GUESS WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS.
THIS IS THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
THE ONE THAT FACES SIDE STREET,
THE ONLY THING I I FOR AGAIN, SO WHERE D GOES FROM THE STREET TO THE CORNER OF THE HOUSE MM-HMM
WHERE D WOULD INTERSECT WITH THE SIDE STREET RIGHT THERE.
FROM THAT POINT DOWN INTO YOUR LEFT, IS THAT CONSIDERED THE CORNER LOT AND EVERYTHING TO THE RIGHT? AND UP OF THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED G SIDE OF THE HOUSE? NO, THE F IS SIDE AND D IS FRONT.
SO ALL THIS CORNER AND APPEARS FRONT THE SIDE SETBACK IS, IT SAYS UP IS CORNER, RIGHT CORNER SETBACK IS MY, SO I'M JUST GOING WITH THE CONCEPT HERE.
GOING TO THE BACK CORNER OF THAT HOUSE ADJACENT TO THE SIDE STREET.
ALL THE WAY UP HERE, UP HIGHER TO THE, UH, WHERE THE END OF G IS IN THE UPPER RIGHT.
WHAT KEEPS ME READING THIS, WHAT KEEPS ME FROM BUILDING A SIX FOOT FENCE FROM THAT CURSOR RIGHT THERE ALL THE WAY DOWN TO WHERE BASICALLY THE TOP OF D WOULD BE.
THE OTHER SIDE OF D RIGHT THERE.
IS IT NOT? SO WHAT'S BEHIND THE HOUSE IS GONNA BE CONSIDERED THE REAR.
UH, THAT'S WHAT'S GOING PARALLEL TO THE BACK OF THE HOUSE IS BACK.
WHAT'S GOING PARALLEL TO THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE ALL THE WAY FROM THE FRONT TO THE BACK IS SIDE.
NOW, I GUESS WE'RE STILL GOING BACK TO WHAT I'M SAYING.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT A CORNER LOT IS, BUT THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO TELL YOU.
BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S LOTS OF HOUSES IN DICKINSON THAT GO FROM THE BACK CORNER ALL THE WAY TO THE FRONT CORNER OF THE HOUSE.
AND THAT'S THE SIDE THEY HAVE FENCES.
AND THEN FROM THE CORNER OF THE GARAGE TO THE SIDE STREET, YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT'S FRONT, BUT IT'S NOT FRONT YARD FENCE, IT'S FRONT OF THE HOUSE FENCE.
IT, IT WOULD BE FRONT SETBACK FENCE.
AND SO THAT'S WHAT ORDINANCE SPEAKS TO IS THAT THE FENCE WITHIN THE FRONT SETBACK IS RESTRICTED TO THE 50% TRANSPARENCY.
SO ESSENTIALLY F AND G WOULD, DOESN'T HAVE THE 50%, UH, TRANSPARENCY.
UM, THE CORONER, UH, DOES REQUIRE THE TRANSPARENCY.
SEE THAT'S 'CAUSE AND I'M, I'M GOING BACK TO THE HUNDREDS OF HOUSES I KNOW IN DICKINSON, MINE
[00:30:01]
INCLUDED THAT I DON'T WANT TO BE NON-COMPLIANT.AND, AND THE END OF THE DAY IS JUST THE LANGUAGE HAS TO BE RIGHT.
AND THAT IS, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO ANYTHING BETTER THAN FRICKING DRAWING IT.
MOST OF THE HOUSES I KNOW HAVE FENCES LIKE THAT AROUND THEM.
THE BIG, THE LITTLE SQUARE IS THE HOUSE OF COURSE.
SO THEY'RE COMING UP AT SOME POINT OF THE HOUSE AND THEN THEY PUT A FENCE.
WELL, ACCORDING TO OUR DESCRIPTORS, THESE, THESE ONES RIGHT THERE ARE CONSIDERED FRONT FACING FRONT FENCES.
AND THEY'RE NOT REALLY FRONT FENCES.
THEY'RE KIND OF JUST THE CONNECTORS OF THE SIDE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PUT A BETTER LANGUAGE TO THAT.
I MEAN, IS YOUR INTERPRETATION THAT THOSE FRONT FACING FENCES WOULD RE RE REQUIRE THAT 50% TRANSPARENCY? THAT'S WHAT HE'S ASKING.
THAT THAT IS NOT IF THEY'RE BEHIND THE FRONT SETBACK.
IT IS, IT DOES NOT REQUIRE THE TRANSPARENCY.
YOU'RE SAYING FRONT FACING STARTS AFTER THE HOUSE ENDS AFTER THE SETBACK.
BUT WE HAVE THREE FOOT SETBACK.
UH, SO THE, BUT IF MY HOUSE, OKAY, GOD DANG IT.
SO IF YOUR HOUSE, THERE'S LAYERS.
I KNOW THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT A VERY GOOD PICTURE.
SO, SO YOUR FENCE REALLY IS YOUR, YOUR FENCE IS MORE LIKE THAT ON THE SIDE, RIGHT? I CAN'T SEE IT.
YOUR, YOUR FENCE REALLY COMES TO THE SIDE.
IT DOESN'T GO ALL THE WAY AROUND.
WELL, BUT I, I STILL KIND OF GO WITH THE CONCEPT.
AND AGAIN, WE'RE REALLY DOING GREAT SCRIBBLING HERE.
BUT NO, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT IN THE, TECHNICALLY ISN'T OF SETBACKS.
IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY IN THE FRONT, BUT IT'S FRONT FACING.
BUT THE POINT THAT HE'S MAKING I THINK IS WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS ONE IS 25 FEET.
IS THE STANDARD SETBACK ON THE FRONT, IS IT NOT? UH, DEPENDS ON THE ZONING DISTRICT, BUT THAT IS A COMMON SETBACK.
SO MY POINT BEING, SO FROM THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE TO THE STREET HAPPENS TO BE 75 FEET.
BY WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED TO ME IS I COULD TECHNICALLY TAKE MY FENCE ALL THE WAY UP TO THAT SETBACK, JUST 25 FEET SHY OF THE ROAD.
AND I COULD BUILD WHATEVER FENCE I WANT AS LONG AS WE'RE IN COMPLIANCE.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE TRANSPARENT AT ALL.
WITHIN THE REQUIRED FRONT OR CORNER SETBACK.
NOW GOING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION, I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT'S THE CORNER LOT IS.
SO THE CORNER SETBACK IS ONLY FOUR LOTS THAT ARE ON A CORNER.
SO REGULAR INFILL LOTS DO NOT HAVE A CORNER SETBACK.
UM, BUT IS THE PORTION OF THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING THAT FACES THE STREET, THERE'S STILL A FRONT YARD.
THE SIDE SETBACK IS ONLY NEXT TO THE HOME.
SO THAT YOU CAN SEE AROUND THE CORNER IS WHAT I'M THINKING.
AND THERE'S ALSO AN INCREASED, UH, SETBACK, SIDE SETBACK, IF YOU CALL IT, UH, FOR STRUCTURES ON A CORNER LOT, IT'S TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, WE TYPICALLY HAVE A FIVE FOOT SETBACK FOR REGULAR INFILL LOTS.
AND I THINK THE CORNER SETBACK, UH, FOR LOTS IT'S 10 FEET.
ARE WE GOOD? CAN WE MOVE? I AM, I AM.
I'M, I HATE TO KEEP BEATING A DEAD HORSE.
I JUST STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.
UH, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, OKAY, SO GO BACK TO THE FENCE HEIGHT.
SO WE ALREADY AGREED THAT WE'RE GONNA CHANGE THE FRONT SIDE REAR NUMBERS, CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO THE CORNER, I, I DON'T COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT IS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I FEEL LIKE THREE FEET IS TOO SMALL AT A MINIMUM.
I THINK A SIX FOOT WOULD BE, SHOULD BE THE MINIMUM ACCEPTABLE.
AND THE SIX FOOT IS MAXIMUM, I SHOULD SAY.
AND THE SIX FOOT IS GOING TO STILL REQUIRE THE 50% TRANSPARENCY, RIGHT? YES.
NOT ON THE CORNER YARD, JUST THE CORNER.
AT THIS TIME, THE ORDINANCE SAYS THAT THEY DO HAVE TO PROVIDE THE 50% TRANSPARENCY BECAUSE YOU'RE ON THE CORNER YARD SETTING THE CORNER.
BECAUSE IN THAT CASE THEN WE NEED TO CALL IT 10 FEET, BUT REQUIRES 50% TRANSPARENCY.
IF THEY WANTED TO BUILD THEIR FENCE, GO INTO THE CORNER, THE FRONT YARD, AND THEN CUT THE CORNER TO GO TO THEIR PRIVACY FENCE,
[00:35:01]
I DON'T WANT 'EM TO HAVE TO CUT IT DOWN FOUR FEET.AND THAT WOULD LOOK REALLY DUMB.
SO THEY HAVE THE RIGHT UP TO 10 FEET WITH 50% TRANSPARENCY.
I THINK THAT MAKES MORE SENSE.
I HAVEN'T ARGUED ABOUT FENCES THIS MUCH IN YEARS.
PLEASE TRUST ME LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
FEELS LIKE I DON'T WANT TO COME BACK ANYMORE.
SO THIS TALKS ABOUT OUR URBAN TRANSITION ZONING DISTRICT.
UH, YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED A FEW TIMES ABOUT HOW IT IS KIND OF GEARED TOWARDS A HIGHER DENSITY, UH, DEVELOPMENTS.
UH, AND SO PART OF THAT, UH, IS IT CURRENTLY DOES NOT PERMIT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS.
UH, SO WE, YOU KNOW, WE ALREADY HAVE MADE A TEXT AMENDMENT TO PERMIT SINGLE FAMILY HOMES IN THE URBAN TRANSITION ZONING DISTRICT.
UH, SO I HAVE ACTUALLY HAD ONE OR TWO CASES WHERE SOMEONE, UH, HAS AN EXISTING HOME THAT IS NOW IN THE URBAN TRANSITION ZONING DISTRICT AND THEY COME TO ME AND THEY SAY, HEY, WE WANNA BUILD AN A DU.
UM, OUR ACCESSORY DRILLING UNIT STANDARDS, I THINK WE'VE TOUCHED ON A LITTLE BIT, UH, RESTRICTS IT TO A MAXIMUM OF 600 SQUARE FEET.
UH, CAN YOU PULL UP THE DESCRIPTORS OF THAT, SIR? MM-HMM
I HAD A TOUGH TIME WITH WHAT AN A DU WAS, SO NOW I NEED TO KNOW WHAT IT IS.
LIKE A MOTHER-IN-LAW, SWEETER OR A RENTAL.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT A LOT OF THAT ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE AT, AT THE TIME, SO MM-HMM
THAT'S WHY WE TRIED TO BE, SO THIS IS THE SECTION ON ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS.
UH, IT NOTES THAT THEY ARE PERMITTED IN THE RURAL INTERSTATE, NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION AND GENERAL RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS.
UM, I THOUGHT WE CHANGED THAT FROM 600 TOO, DIDN'T WE? WE HAVE.
UH, I DON'T KNOW IF WE ACTUALLY DECIDED ON, UH, CHANGING THAT OR NOT.
'CAUSE IT'S ALREADY LIMITED BY THE SETBACKS.
WE WOULDN'T NEED TO FIT IN THE SETBACKS.
UH, SO ONE PER LOT, UH, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, LOCATED SIDE OF REAR MM-HMM
THEY PROVIDE ADDITIONAL PARKING, UH, THE OWNER'S SUPPOSED TO LIVE THERE.
ONE SET OF SERVICE STUFF AND ONE ADDRESS.
SO, UM, KIND OF STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION ON THIS WOULD BE TO PERMIT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS IN THE URBAN TRANSITION ZONING DISTRICT.
UH, WITH THE CAVEAT THAT IT IS ONLY FOR CONVENTIONAL DETACHED HOMES.
SO WE WOULD STILL END UP WITH TWO DWELLING UNITS PER PROPERTY.
UH, THE SAME ADDRESS OWNER HAS TO LIVE THERE.
ANYTHING BELOW NUMBER EIGHT, BY THE WAY.
IT IS, ARE THERE REQUIREMENTS IN, IN NO, IN, UH, MATERIALS.
LIKE CAN THEY MAKE METAL? YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
WELL, THEY PUT THERE, IT'S ONE IN MY AREA,
UH, THERE, THERE'S KIND OF A STATE LAW THAT TRUMP BUILDING MATERIAL REQUIRING CERTAIN BUILDING MATERIALS.
UH, IF IT'S PERMITTED BUILDING, BUILDING MATERIAL FOR THAT USE, WE CAN'T REALLY PROHIBIT IT.
WE, WE, YOU CAN'T PROHIBIT, UM, A METAL BUILDING BEING A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET IN THE CORRECT.
THE MAYOR TRIED TO PASS A MASONRY ORDINANCE IN THE CITY.
I DON'T MEAN MASONARY, BUT I MEAN IT OH, IT WAS AWFUL.
YOU WOULDN'T BUILD YOUR HOME WITH METAL.
SO IT DOESN'T SEEM YOU WOULD BUILD YOUR A DU IF IT'S A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET WITH METAL, HUH? BECAUSE OF THE FEDERAL LAW.
YOU CAN'T DICTATE IF IT'S, IF IT'S RIGHT.
WHAT'S THAT? IT WAS LIKE, RIGHT.
IF IT'S AN, IF YOU'RE A HISTORICAL, IF IT'S AN APPROVED BUILDING MATERIAL, WE CAN'T PROHIBIT IT.
AND THAT'S, BUT YOU COULD, YOU BUILD YOUR HOME WITH THE METAL AND BARNDOMINIUM ARE USUALLY METAL.
WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING THAT THEY PUT MASONRY AROUND IT.
HAVE YOU EVER LOOKED AT BARNDOMINIUM? YES, I KNOW WHAT MOST OF 'EM ARE.
MOST OF 'EM ARE STEEL BUILDINGS.
HELL, I'VE SEEN 'EM MAKE FRICKING CONTAINERS INTO FRICKING HOUSES THAT END UP LOOKING NICE.
SO THE QUESTION ON A, I NEVER A A D SIR.
BACK TO WHAT WAS THE ORIGINAL QUESTION? YES.
UH, SO KIND OF WHAT I WAS SUGGESTING IS THAT WE ALLOW THE ADUS IN THIS ZONING DISTRICT, BUT ONLY FOR CONVENTIONAL DETACHED HOMES.
THE REASON FOR THAT IS, SAY YOU
[00:40:01]
HAVE A DUPLEX, AN EXISTING, AND THEY WANNA BUILD AN A DU, THEN YOU'RE, YOU HAVE A TYPICALLY YOUR RESIDENTIAL LOT THAT COULD HAVE UP TO THREE DWELLING UNITS ON IT.AND THAT'S KIND OF PUSHING THE ENVELOPE.
YOU KNOW, BRI I THOUGHT IT WAS ONE IF, IF YOU ALREADY HAD A DUPLEX AND IF THERE'S A, SORRY.
SO JUST, JUST THE SINGLE FAMILY HOME DEAL.
UH, ARE THERE ANY OTHER, UM, I I, I KNOW WE GOT RURAL AND THE STATE, WE GOT NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION, GENERAL RESIDENTIAL.
IS THERE ANY OTHER, OTHER ZONINGS THAT WOULD, THAT'S ALL THE RESIDENTIAL THAT WOULD FALL IN THAT CATEGORY OTHER THAN URBAN TRANSITION.
THAT'S ALL THE RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS THAT WOULD OKAY.
NO, I, I WOULD, I WOULD BE IN, IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT AND ALSO MOVING THAT UP TO A THOUSAND FEET, I BELIEVE.
I GOT KIND OF ATTACKED LAST WEEK ABOUT THIS.
REALLY? SO YES, THIS IS, I WOULDN'T CALL IT ATTACKED PER SE.
THEY'RE NOW CALLING MOBILE HOMES MODULAR.
UH, MANUFACTURED HOMES AND MODULAR HOMES ARE VERY, VERY DIFFERENT.
UH, MANUFACTURED HOMES ARE CERTIFIED BY HUD HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT.
UH, THEY'RE NOT BUILT TO BUILDING CODE STANDARDS.
THEY'RE NOT WINDSTORM RATED, THEY'RE NOT ON A PERMANENT FOUNDATION.
UH, THE, THAT'S ALL PRETTY COMMON WITH MANUFACTURED HOMES, FORMALLY KNOWN AS MO UH, MOBILE HOMES.
MODULAR HOMES ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
UH, BUT THEY ARE BUILT TO THE INTERNATIONAL CODE BUILDING CODE, WHICH IS WHAT WE HAVE ADOPTED.
THEY ARE BUILT ON AN ENGINEERED AND PERMANENT FOUNDATION.
UM, UM, THEY, THEY ARE SIMILAR BUT, BUT VERY DIFFERENT.
THE QUALITY OF A MODULAR HOME IS TYPICALLY MUCH BETTER THAN MANUFACTURED HOMES.
AND, UH, ACTUALLY STATE LAW PROHIBITS US FROM, UH, PROHIBITING MODULAR HOMES IN ZONING DISTRICTS THAT ALLOW FOR SINGLE FAMILY.
BUT YOU SAID THEY HAVE TO BE ON A FOUNDATION MODULARS DO OR ENGINEERS MODULARS DO.
MODULAR HOMES ARE ON AN ENGINEER FOUNDATION DESIGN THAT'S APPROVED BY THE STATE OF TEXAS.
UH, SO KIND OF WHAT THIS ITEM TALKS ABOUT ON MANUFACTURED HOMES IS, YOU KNOW, WE HAD A PRETTY BIG CHAPTER IN MUNI CODE CHAPTER NINE, UH, THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY GEARED TOWARDS MANUFACTURED HOMES AND MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS.
UM, I'M NOT SURE HOW WE GOT TO THE POINT WE ARE AT, BUT WHEN THEY ADOPTED THE EDC, THEY REPEALED ALL OF CHAPTER NINE.
AND THE REASON THAT I PUT IT ON HERE IS BECAUSE THEY DID PROVIDE STANDARDS FOR MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS.
UH, BUT IT ALSO, AT THE VERY BOTTOM, WHERE IS IT? THIS ONE K ADDITIONAL PROVISIONS THAT APPLY TO MANUFACTURED HOMES, MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS, AND MANUFACTURED HOME SUBDIVISIONS ARE LOCATED IN CHAPTER NINE OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES.
SO IT REFERENCES A CHAPTER THAT IS REPEALED AND WILL NO LONGER EXIST.
UM, BASICALLY I WOULD RENDER THAT UNENFORCEABLE.
UH, AND SO THE REASON THAT IS IMPORTANT IS, UH, HOWEVER FAMILIAR Y'ALL ARE WITH THIS CHAPTER NINE, IT DID CONTAIN THE LICENSES PORTION OF MANUFACTURED HOME PARK.
UH, FORMERLY EVERY MANUFACTURED HOME PARK IN THE CITY OF DICKINSON WAS REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN A YEARLY LICENSE WITH THE CITY.
UH, HOW THIS REALLY ORIGINATED, I, I HAVEN'T GOT TO DIG THAT FAR INTO IT, BUT THERE'S PLUSES AND MINUSES FOR THIS.
I ASSUME, YOU KNOW, THEY WANTED TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF REGULATION OR ENFORCEMENT OVER MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS.
I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH THIS REALLY GIVES US, UM, FROM A CODE ENFORCEMENT STANDPOINT, WE CAN ENGAGE CODE, UH, ISSUES IN MA MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS WHENEVER WE WANT.
UH, I DON'T HAVE TO WAIT FOR THEM TO APPLY FOR A YEARLY LICENSE WHERE WE DO AN INSPECTION.
UH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ON OUR RADAR ALL THE TIME.
UH, I THINK THIS WAS ACTUALLY CREATED AROUND 2013 WHEN THEY CAME UP WITH THIS AND PUT IT IN HERE.
'CAUSE I THINK JULIE JOHNSON WROTE THIS.
'CAUSE I REMEMBER WE DID HAVE A SECTION IN HERE TALKING ABOUT AGE OF THE MANUFACTURED HOMES TOO.
IS IT STILL IN THERE? THAT DOES STILL EXIST.
I BELIEVE THAT'S THE ONE THING THAT STUCK IN MY HEAD.
I THOUGHT WE WEREN'T ALLOWING ANY MORE TO COME IN NEW ONES.
WE WEREN'T ALLOWED TO MAKE THAT STATEMENT.
AGAIN, STATE AND FEDERAL LAW WITH HUD.
UH, BUT WE WERE ALLOWED TO PUT LIMITATIONS ON THE AGE OF THE RV, UH, MO MANUFACTURED
[00:45:01]
HOME, WHICH KEPT HIM FROM ROLLING A 40-YEAR-OLD ONE INTO OUR TOWN AND LEAVING IT.WE, WE AREN'T ALLOWED TO HAVE, WE ARE ALLOWED TO ZONE CERTAIN AREAS THAT CAN'T ACCEPT THAT THOUGH.
AND THERE AREN'T THEY REQUIRED TO BE IN A PARK? YEAH.
SO THIS TIME WE, WE ALLOW MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS OR SUBDIVISIONS IN TWO ZONING DISTRICT, RESIDENTIAL OR RURAL AND STATE AND GENERAL RESIDENTIAL.
UH, KIND OF THE RULE CURRENTLY FOR NEW INSTALLATIONS IS THAT NEW INSTALLATIONS ARE NOT PERMITTED UNLESS THEY ARE REPLACING AN EXISTING MANUFACTURED HOME.
AND THERE'S ACTUALLY A 12 MONTH PERIOD OF REPLACEMENT AND THEY HAVE TO BE CERTAIN AGE OR NEWER.
HOW OLD DO THEY HAVE TO BE? I MEAN, HOW, I THINK IT WAS LIKE, IT WASN'T MUCH, IT WAS LIKE FIVE YEARS OR EIGHT YEARS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I WAS SCROLLING FROM THAT AND I ACTUALLY DO NOT SEE IT GO UP.
OH, I LOVE IT WHEN THEY REBUILD THEM AFTER THEY CATCH ON FIRE.
FLOOR AND THEY TAKE OUT TWO AND THREE TRAILERS.
SO MUNI CODE, I BELIEVE IT WAS 12 YEARS WE HAD FOR THIS.
SO TRAVIS IS, WHILE YOU'RE LOOKING FOR THAT, I APPRECIATE IT.
BUT, UH, ULTIMATELY YOUR REQUEST IS BASICALLY THAT WE 15 YEARS.
AND SO THAT ACTUALLY DOES NOT EXIST IN THE CURRENT ORDINANCE.
SO WE WOULD LIKE TO TAKE EVERYTHING THAT'S IN CHAPTER NINE AND PLUG IT INTO THAT SECTION THAT SAYS IN ACCORDANCE WITH CHAPTER NINE.
IS THAT KIND OF WHAT YOUR INTENT IS? UH, IT IS UP FOR DISCUSSION.
I'M, I'M ON THE FENCE WHETHER THE LICENSE, THE REQUIRED LICENSE IS BENEFICIAL TO THE CITY OR NOT.
I WAS KIND OF HOPING TO GET Y'ALL'S INPUT ON THAT.
IF, IF YOU HAVE ANY FEELINGS EITHER WAY.
THE LICENSE IS FOR THE PARK ITSELF CORRECT.
AND THE REASON I SAY THAT IS 'CAUSE ULTIMATELY IT'S A BUSINESS.
AND I GUESS KIND OF TO FILL YOU IN ON HOW WE'VE BEEN HANDLING THIS PROCESS SINCE THE ADOPTION.
'CAUSE EVERY YEAR WHEN THOSE LICENSE EXPIRE, ALL THE MOBILE HOME PARKS, UH, YOU KNOW, CONTACT US, HEY, WE NEED TO RE RENEW OUR LICENSE.
UH, SO WHEN WE KIND OF UNCOVERED THIS SITUATION, UH, WE HAVE A PROCESS CALLED NON-CONFORMING REGISTRATION.
AND SO, HEY, WE CAN'T BY ORDINANCE REQUIRE YOU TO MAINTAIN THIS LICENSE.
UH, BUT WE CAN HAVE YOU REGISTER AS NON-CONFORMING.
UH, 'CAUSE MOST OF THESE PARKS ARE LOCATED IN ZONING DISTRICTS THAT NO LONGER, UH, PERMIT MANUFACTURE HOME PARKS.
UH, WHICH MAKES THEM A NON-CONFORMING USE.
AND SO WE DO THE NON-CONFORMING REGISTRATION FOR THE WHOLE PARK.
IT'S A ONE TIME ISSUE DOCUMENT.
IF IT'S ONE, ONE BIG PARCEL, WE VERIFY, UH, THE NUMBER OF EXISTING SPACES AND THEY ARE LOCKED IN AT THAT NUMBER, YOU KNOW, PERPETUALLY, ESSENTIALLY.
AND LEGIT QUESTION, WHY NOT LICENSE? IS IT BECOMING BURDENSOME FOR STAFF TO KEEP UP WITH THAT? UH, NOT, NOT AS MUCH ON STAFF.
WE GET A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, COMPLAINING FROM THE PARKS WHENEVER THEY HAVE TO RENEW IT EVERY YEAR.
AND WE ASK FOR THE SAME DOCUMENTATION EVERY TIME.
UH, THEN THEY SHOULD HAVE IT, OR FOR THAT MATTER, CAN WE CHANGE IT EVERY THREE YEAR RENEWALS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? YEAH.
BUT THE, IF WE CAN CHANGE IT TO FIVE YEARS OLD.
OH, THE, THE, THE AGE OF THE, OF THE DEAL.
THAT, I FEEL LIKE THERE'S A LIMITATION ON THAT.
'CAUSE I, I ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN JULIE MASTERS WANTED IT TO BE A LOT LESS THAN 15 YEARS.
I I CAN DO SOME RESEARCH ON THAT IF THOSE HOUSES DON'T, DON'T LAST THAT LONG.
AND, AND DON'T GET ME WRONG, COULD BE I, I'LL BE THE FIRST ONE TO RAISE MY HAND AND I'M NOT A FAN OF MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS, BUT THEY DO SERVE A PURPOSE AND THERE ARE PEOPLE TO LIVE IN THEM.
AND I AM IN FAVOR OF MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE MEETING THE STANDARDS AND EXPECTATIONS.
NOT JUST 'CAUSE THE CITY DOESN'T LIKE RV OR MOBILE HOME PARKS, BUT IT'S ALSO FOR THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE.
THEY'RE DANGEROUS TO THE KIDS.
ARE THERE REQUIREMENTS FOR, UM, INSPECTION? I THOUGHT THAT, THAT THERE AT LEAST USED TO BE REQUIREMENTS FOR A VEGETATION AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
[00:50:01]
FOR MANUFACTURED HOMES.WE DO NOT, UH, FOR IF YOU'RE DEVELOPING A NEW PARK, THERE IS, BUT WE'RE NOT.
BUT PER HOME PROMOTING, DEVELOPING NEW PARKS.
IT'S, IT'S AVAILABLE AS AN OPTION, BUT, UH, I WOULD NOT SAY WE'RE NECESSARILY PROMOTING IT.
SO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POINT HERE, TRAVIS.
I WON'T SAY THIS IS THE END ANSWER YET, BUT IT'S A SUGGESTION.
CHAPTER NINE OF THE MUNI CODE.
I BELIEVE THE, WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO IS, CAN WE COPY CHAPTER NINE CURRENTLY IN ITS CURRENT FORM AND DROP IT INTO THE UDC IN THE SECTION WHERE IT SAYS WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH CHAPTER NINE? 'CAUSE ULTIMATELY CHAPTER NINE DOES NOT EXIST CURRENTLY.
NOW, AS I SAY THAT, I'M COMPLETELY IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT.
THE ONE THING I THINK FOR OUR BOARD, I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF US HAVE EVER READ CHAPTER NINE.
I PROBABLY DID, BUT IT WAS 13 YEARS AGO.
SO I WOULD SAY THAT I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE DO PUT IT IN THERE, BUT THAT WE ARE GIVING KIND OF PUT ON NOTICE THAT OUR NEXT MEETING, HEY EVERYBODY GET A CHANCE.
FORWARD US A COPY OF CHAPTER NINE JUST TO READ IT, SEE IF WE HAVE ANY COMMENTS, ADD TO IT.
'CAUSE I THINK THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT CHAPTER THAT I THINK WE NEED TO BE FAMILIAR WITH AND MAKE SURE IF WE HAVE COMMENTS WE GET TO ADAM.
SO, BUT I THINK DEFINITELY PUTTING IT IN THERE IS A GOOD WAY TO GO.
SO ARE A LOT OF CHAPTER NINE REGARDING THE POSSIBILITY OF NEW ONES BECAUSE YOU LOOK AT SIDEWALKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THE EXISTING ONES DO NOT HAVE THAT.
UM, SO IT, IT, SO WE ARE PERMITTING BY WRIGHT NEW MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS, NOT BY WRIGHT.
UM, THERE'S TWO, LIKE I SAID, TWO ZONING DISTRICTS THAT PERMIT IT.
UH, SO IN GENERAL RESIDENTIAL, IF YOU WANNA DO ONE, IT HAS TO GO FOR COUNCIL AND P AND Z.
AND THEN, UH, RURAL AND STATE, IT HAS THIS ONE LIMITED USE STANDARD, UH, WHICH IS JUST, YOU GO BY WHAT WE HAVE HERE IN ORDINANCE WHEN YOU'RE CREATING THE PARK AND, AND YOU CAN BE APPROVED TRAVIS AND, AND, AND IT THAT'S IN RURAL, UH, AREAS.
THIS IS THE ZONING DISTRICT THAT REQUIRES MINIMUM OF ONE ACRE LOTS.
AND SO YOU COULD HAVE A MANUFACTURED HOME PARK WITHIN A ONE ACRE YARD.
UH, IT, IT COULD BE BIGGER THAN THAT.
UH, JUST THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE RURAL IN ESTATE IS ONE ACRE.
AND WE, WE HAVE IT AVAILABLE BY RIGHT TO START A NEW ONE THERE BY REQUEST.
BUT YEAH, IT'S BY REQUEST IT BY REQUEST.
IT SAYS IT HAS TO IN FRONT OF, NO, NOT NOT IN RURAL ESTATE.
IT'S BY, THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING MAYBE WE WANT TO CHANGE THAT.
BUT GOING BACK TO OUR OWN MAP THAT WE JUST DID, DO WE HAVE ANY RURAL ESTATE IN THE CITY? YES, ABSOLUTELY.
WE PUT ONE A LOT OF THE 6 46 AREA AND AVENUE L THAT'S A LOT OF RURAL ESTATE.
SO WE NEED, WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT.
WELL THE NO, UNFORTUNATELY WE CAN'T NOT SAY NO.
WITHOUT HAVING THE MEANING THEY HAVE TO GO IN FRONT OF P AND Z AND CITY COUNCIL.
I'M CURIOUS, TRAVIS, HELP ME OUT HERE.
'CAUSE I FEEL LIKE THERE IS SOME KIND OF RULE OR LAW.
I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU A HUNDRED PERCENT, BUT I FEEL LIKE THERE'S LIKE A RULE OR LAW THAT SAYS THAT WE HAVE TO ALLOW THEM TO CERTAIN DEGREE PER HUD.
AND THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF WHY WE HAD THE ENTIRE CHAPTER NINE, WHICH WAS PRETTY LENGTHY AND DETAILED, SAYING THAT IF YOU WANNA DO IT, YOU GOTTA MEET ALL THESE REQUIREMENTS AND THAT WAS LEGIT.
IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT THEIR REQUIRED NOT TO BE RUNNING POWER CORDS FROM ONE TRAILER TO THE OTHER, TO THE OTHER, UH, UTILITIES? YES.
UH, ALL MANUFACTURED HOMES SHALL BE SERVED WITH SANITARY SEWER, WATER, AND ELECTRICAL POWER.
BECAUSE THEY DON'T, THEY RUN POWER CORDS.
IT'S, IT'S, YOU GUYS NEED TO GO.
BUT AGAIN, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I, I THINK ALL OF US NEED TO READ SECTION NINE PRETTY INTENSIVELY.
I DO, BUT DO WE WANNA DEAL WITH WHAT I JUST BROUGHT UP OR NOT? DO WE WANNA DEAL WITH THAT? IT'S BY RIGHT IN RURAL, IN OUR RURAL DEALS WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO, IF WE, BUT WHAT BRUCE IS SAYING, HE THINKS THAT WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO AND I STAND CORRECTED.
I MEAN, IF I'M WRONG, TRAVIS AND I WILL AGREE WITH DEBORAH ON THAT.
I'M NOT VERY FAMILIAR IF WE CAN JUST OUTRIGHT PROHIBIT THEM.
BUT IF WE DO NOT SAYING PROHIBIT.
IF WE'RE SAYING IF WE ALLOW THEM BY A LIMITED OR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, THAT'S STILL GIVING THEM THE CHANCE TO BE ALLOWED.
[00:55:01]
I I WOULD A THOUSAND PERCENT AGREE WITH HER.IF THERE IS A POINT THAT IT'S NOT A VIOLATION OF FEDERAL OR STATE LAW.
IF WE CAN'T RUN IT THROUGH AN SUP YEAH.
I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND WE DO.
SO I DON'T SEE ANY ISSUE WITH THAT.
SO THERE'S SOME DEGREE OF OVERSIGHT ON THE, ON THE POSSIBILITY AND ESPECIALLY IN OUR AREAS WHERE WE'RE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WANNA HAVE A LITTLE SPACE AND WANNA, YOU KNOW.
SO RECOMMENDATION IS GO AHEAD AND DROP SECTION NINE IN THERE, EMAIL IT ALL TO US FOR READING AND ALSO ADDRESS OUR, UH, CHART THAT MAKES THAT A LIMITED USE.
SUP WHATEVER THE HELL THE WORD IS NOW, I DON'T REMEMBER.
AND SEE HOW STUCK WITH SUVS AND SEE HOW ADDITIONAL OLD WE HAVE SOMETHING I CAN, I WILL LOOK INTO THAT.
UH, THE AGE REQUIREMENT, I DID A QUICK SEARCH AND, AND YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING THAT SAID WE CANNOT RESTRICT IT.
SO WE JUST NEEDED TO DECIDE ON AN APPROPRIATE AGE RANGE, ALL KINDS.
UH, LIKE I SAID, THE PREVIOUS ONE WAS 15 YEARS.
UH, SO IF WE WANNA DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT.
WELL YOU HAVE THE MOST, UM, EXPERIENCE WITH THEM BEING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT FIFTH OVER 10 YEARS.
THE, THE FLOORS GET SPONGY THAT LITERALLY THEY FALL THROUGH THE FLOORS.
WE'VE HAD TO RESCUE 'EM BECAUSE THEY FELL THROUGH THE FLOORS.
SO THAT WOULD BE AN INTERESTING THING TO, UM, TO LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, HOW LONG DO THEY LAST? YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF JUST PICKING A NUMBER, UH, MAYBE DOING A LITTLE RESEARCH.
WELL IT ALL DEPENDS BECAUSE IT, WHEN THEY HAVE WATER LEAKS THAT MAKES THE FLOOR SPUDGY.
UM, DEPENDING ON HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE LIVING THERE.
AND THE WEIGHT ALSO MAKES THE FLOOR SPONGY.
UM, THERE'S JUST A LOT OF THERE.
YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF VARIABLES.
YOU, YOU KNOW, THOSE FLOORS JUST DON'T, I'VE FELL, I'VE FALLEN THROUGH FLOORS AND WOW.
THERE, THERE'S DEFINITELY A AND THEY GO LIKE THAT LITERALLY IN FIRE.
SO WE'LL ALL NEED TO READ SECTION NINE AND REVISIT IT.
YOU WILL FIND OUT ONE IF THERE IS THAT WE CAN LEGALLY MM-HMM
BUT, UH, LIMITED USE REQUEST, WHATEVER THE PHRASE IS.
ALSO, UH, IF THERE'S ANY LIMITATION ON HOW OLD THE, THE HOMES CAN BE.
AND THEN ALSO THAT WE AS A GROUP WHEN WE GET TOGETHER, I BELIEVE JUNE 9TH, YOU KNOW, WE WON'T DO IT JUNE 9TH AT THE NEXT MEETING WE WILL BRING UP CHAPTER NINE FOR COMMENT, IF ANY.
EVERYBODY COOL WITH THAT RECOMMENDATION? MM-HMM
IS THAT ON A TUESDAY? 'CAUSE YOU GUYS KEEP ON HAVING 'EM ON A WEDNESDAY.
THERE'S A REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING.
YOU KNOW THAT RIGHT? I'M LIKE, IT'S A WEDNESDAY.
SO, UH, GOING BACK TO THAT WAS YOUR THIRD POINT.
SO THAT WAS KIND OF ALL I IDENTIFIED IN THESE FIRST THREE, UH, ARTICLES.
UH, TO A POINT, UH, WE CAN SCROLL THROUGH, UH, WHATEVER SPEED Y'ALL WANT OR WE CAN START ON THE USE TABLE, WHICH IS KIND OF A, A BIG TICKET AS WELL.
I HATE TO TALK ABOUT FENCES ANYMORE.
'CAUSE THAT'S RESIDENTIAL KIND OF, UH, REQUIREMENTS.
AUTOCENTRIC AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
I SEEM TO RECALL THEY HAD SHORT LIKE SIX, EIGHT FOOT FENCE LIMITATIONS ALSO.
AND I THINK WE NEED TO ADJUST THAT TO GIVE THESE PEOPLE THE RIGHT, IF YOU'RE RUNNING A BUSINESS AND YOU WANT TO HAVE, WELL HELL, YOU NEED A 12 FOOT PRIVACY FENCE BEHIND IT BECAUSE YOU JUST NEED IT.
OR, UH, FOR SECURITY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THEY NEED TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO IT.
AND THIS IS FOR WHAT'S AUTOCENTRIC? AUTOCENTRIC, YEAH.
AND BUSINESS PARKS INDUSTRIAL SMALL SCALE.
THAT'S WHAT WE WERE CALLING NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL BEFORE, RIGHT? YES SIR.
BUSINESS PARK HAS THE SAME INDUSTRIAL, UH, THAT FENCING COMMENTS THAT WE MADE AS FAR AS 10 FOOT AND VISIBILITY AND ALL THAT STUFF.
DOES THAT STILL APPLY TO SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL ALSO BY CHANCE.
[01:00:01]
IT, IT CAN, IF Y'ALL WANT.AT THIS TIME, WE KIND OF DID IT BLANKET, YOU KNOW, EVERY ZONING DISTRICT HAS THE SAME FENCE HEIGHT, BUT IF Y'ALL WANNA SEPARATE IT BY COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL, THAT'S EASY ENOUGH.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD WAY TO DO IT.
BECAUSE I'M THINKING SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL IS USUALLY ADJACENT TO NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND IF THEY DID WANT TO HAVE PRIVACY FENCES, OR EXCUSE ME, LEMME TRY IT AGAIN.
UH, GATES AND SUCH LIKE THAT FOR THEIR PROPERTY, I WOULD WANT IT TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S COMPARABLE.
AS FOR THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
I WOULD DEFINITELY MAKE THEM 50% THOUGH, BECAUSE ABSOLUTELY.
THERE'S, THERE'S RESTAURANTS THAT WILL COOK MM-HMM
SO THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO YEAH, YEAH.
I'M PICKING UP WHAT YOU'RE LAYING DOWN NOW.
I MEAN, SAFETY WISE, YOU'RE MM-HMM
YOU'RE PROTECTING THEM, BUT ALSO KEEP PEOPLE FROM WALKING UP TO 'EM AND GETTING HURT AND ALL THIS STUFF.
BUT WE ALSO NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING OUT THERE.
I'M, I'M NOT A SO 50% TRANSPARENCY.
SO IT'S COMMENSURATE WITH THE, UM, WITH THE RESIDENTIAL.
SO IS THAT 50% TRANSPARENCY FOR ALL FENCES ON SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL OR ONLY FRONT YARD OR JUST THE FRONT? I MEAN, YEAH.
THE PRI THEY MAY NEED PRIVACY IN THE BACK.
IN COMMERCIAL I WOULD DO THE BACK SMALL SCALE.
SMALL SCALE, WHICH IS ADJACENT TO NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND KIND OF WHAT I'M THINKING ABOUT WHEN I SAY NO TRANSPARENCY IS, UH, AGAIN, USING THE BACK OF EVERGREEN DRIVE, WE HAVE A BEAUTIFUL LITTLE SPOT AT THE END.
THEY HAVE A NICE PRIVACY FENCE BETWEEN 'EM SO THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT ALL STARING AT EACH OTHER'S BACKYARDS.
AGAIN, SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL, I FEEL LIKE IS MORE RELATIVE TO RESIDENTIAL.
I THINK THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE, UM, PRIVACY IN THE BACK BECAUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THEY JUST, FOR INSTANCE, SAY THAT THEY HAVE LIKE MOTORCYCLES OR, YOU KNOW, REPAIR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THEY DON'T WANT BEING STOLEN HARD.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? MM-HMM
THAT'S HARD BECAUSE THEY CAN STORE, I GET TO SEE THEM AND YOU GUYS GET TO SEE THEM WHEN THEY'VE GOT HIDDEN, HIDDEN SO MUCH.
KIND OF LIKE THAT THING THAT CAUGHT FIRE EVERY PLACE.
THE STORAGE, STORAGE FACILITY THAT'S AT, UM, BAKER AND FIVE 17, THE OLD BOAT, YARD, WHATEVER.
HOW TALL IS THAT FENCE? DOES ANYBODY KNOW? UH, I WOULD SAY IT'S ABOUT EIGHT FEET.
IT'S HARD FOR, YOU DON'T WANT SEE IT, BUT YOU NEED TO SEE, I, I'D BE SURPRISED IF IT WAS 10.
THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M, THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING WITH THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF WHEN IT COMES TO ALL THE COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, UH, ONE, A LOT OF THESE GUYS HAVE VERY VALUABLE EQUIPMENT THAT SITS OUT THERE.
YOU KNOW, THEY NEED TO BE ALLOWED TO HAVE, THAT'S WHAT I WAS BARBED WIRE ON THE TOP OF THESE THINGS IF NEED BE, AND I'M ASSUMING BARBED WIRE AT THE TOP OF IT IS AN ADDITIONAL 1218 INCHES.
AND I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE COUNTED TOWARD THE HEIGHT, WOULD IT NOT? THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
UH, BUT YEAH, FOR THE COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, I REALLY FEEL LIKE, AND I THINK ABOUT, UH, ALL THE WAY TO OUR, WHAT'S OUR INDUSTRIAL PARK OR INDUSTRIAL PLANT.
IT'S CHANGED ITS NAME LIKE FOUR TIMES.
WHAT IS IT? I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW NOW,
SO I DON'T WANT US TO CREATE A SCENARIO WHERE WE MAKE A WHOLE BUNCH OF NON-CONFORMING PEOPLE BECAUSE WE DIDN'T GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO WHAT THEY NEEDED TO DO.
AND I THINK, UH, I, I THINK FOR COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, UH, IT SHOULD BE 14 FEET MAX.
IS THAT PRACTICAL? 14 FEET, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THEIR BARBED WIRE OR WHATEVER IF, IF NECESSARY.
NONE OF THOSE ARE EVER GONNA BACK UP TO, WELL, NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE.
AND IT BACKS UP TO THE ENTIRE SUBDIVISION.
AND THEY'VE GOT ABOUT, I THINK THOSE ARE PROBABLY 10, 12 FOOT PRIVACY FENCES BETWEEN THE SUBDIVISION AND, AND THE CAR WASH MM-HMM
NOW HELP ME OUT HERE ON THAT, BECAUSE THEY WERE GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS OF GETTING PERMITTED.
MAN, I'M TRYING TO GO BACK IN HISTORY ON THAT.
THAT WAS, I MEAN, IT WAS ZONED COMMERCIAL, SO I BELIEVE THAT DEVELOPMENT ACTUALLY GOT A SUP.
IT'S LIKELY THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, ADDED THAT TO IT.
YEAH, YEAH, BECAUSE YOU HAD A, YOU HAD A BIG GROUP OF PEOPLE AT THAT TIME.
I REMEMBER THAT WELL, SO I'M, I'M STILL THINKING PROBABLY 14 FOOT
[01:05:01]
IS NOT A BAD NUMBER AS FAR AS JUST DETERMINING WHAT IS PRACTICAL.THERE SHOULDN'T, I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYTHING.
WELL, DEPENDING ON WHERE IT'S AT, IS IT, LIKE I SAID, ON NOT WHY PIMCO? WHAT IS IT? I THINK IT'S, IS IT CALUMET NOW? HUH? IS IT CALUMET? CAL CALUMET NOW? YEAH.
IT USED TO BE PEN RICO, BUT THEIR FENCES ARE ABOUT 12 TO 14 FEET HIGH, 12 FOOT WITH THE, UH, RAZOR WIRE ON TOP OF IT.
NOW AT THAT LOCATION, IT MAKES SENSE.
THAT'S, THAT'S A DIFFERENT ZONING.
IS THAT NOT INDUSTRIAL? YEAH, THE INDUSTRIAL ZONING DISTRICT DOES ALLOW, THAT'S AGREE WITH YOU.
BUT IN THE OTHER, IT, IT IS, UH, CLOSER TO RESIDENTIAL.
I DON'T REALLY AGREE WITH THAT.
WELL, THE POINT BEING THAT BIG PARKING LOT I WAS, OR THE, UH, STORAGE PLACE, LIKE I SAID, WE BELIEVE THOSE ARE ABOUT 10 FOOT TALL FENCES.
AND IF THEY DID HAVE BARBED WIRE OVER THE TOP TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT, THAT'S ANOTHER, THAT'S ANOTHER 18 TO 24 INCHES.
NOW YOU'RE 12 FOOT, GOD, THAT'S UGLY
I, NO, IT, I MEAN, I'M JUST SAYING THAT.
NO, BUT IT'S, I, I AGREE WITH YOU.
I STILL SAY IT'S A STORAGE FACILITY THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE SECURITY ON HOW MUCH MONEY THEY'VE GOT INSIDE THAT PLACE.
FOR ARGUMENT'S SAKE, THE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT DOES ALLOW A 12 FOOT FENCE IN THE SIDE OR REAR, OR IN A SIX FOOT IN THE FRONT CURRENTLY INDUSTRIAL DOES.
AS OPPOSED TO A 12 FOOT FENCE AROUND THE ENTIRE PROPERTY.
YOU KNOW, SO THERE, THERE WOULD BE OPTIONS IF THEY THEORETICALLY WANTED TO BUILD A 12 FOOT FENCE OUTSIDE OF THE FRONT SETBACK.
SO 25 FEET BACK, THEY COULD DO A 12 FOOT FENCE.
NOW, AND THAT WAS REALLY THE THEORY THAT I CHICKEN SCRATCHED EARLIER, IS LIKE IF THEY'RE 25 FEET BACK ON THE SET SETBACK.
THEN I GUESS IT WOULDN'T MATTER AT THAT POINT, AS LONG AS THEY'VE GOT THE OPTION OF, LIKE I SAID, 1214 FOOT FENCE AS IS NECESSARY AND ALL THE WAY TO THE COMMERCIAL PEOPLE.
UH, AND I'M THINKING ABOUT, LET'S TALK ABOUT GAY PONTIAC.
THEY'VE GOT THEIR REPAIR SECTION AND THEY HAVE TO STORE CARS BACK THERE.
ANYBODY KNOW HOW TALL THOSE FENCES ARE? I DO.
UM, I HAVE A, I HAVE A QUICK STORY ABOUT THAT.
WHAT'S THAT? SO I SAID I HAVE A QUICK STORY ABOUT THE NEW, THE GAY KIA.
UH, SO WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD SOME COMMUNICATION FROM THE RESIDENTS THAT LIVE BEHIND THERE, UH, THAT THEY'RE KIND OF UNHAPPY WITH THE FENCE.
AND THEIR FENCE IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH ORDINANCE.
IT'S SIX AND A HALF FEET TALL.
UH, BUT THE ISSUE THEY RUN INTO THERE IS THAT THEY'RE BUILT AT THE ORIGINAL GRADE, THE FENCE.
AND SO THE REST OF THE LOT WAS RAISED MAYBE THREE FEET, UH, FOR THE BUILDING IN THE PARKING LOT.
AND SO NOW YOU HAVE THE PARKING LOT HERE AND THE FENCE DOWN HERE, IT KIND OF CUTS THE HEIGHT OF THE FENCE DOWN.
LIGHTING, SAME SITUATION, DRAINAGE, SAME SITUATION.
BUT, UH, YEAH, AGAIN, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, YOU GUYS DISAGREE WITH ME ALL DAY LONG AND I'M COOL WITH IT.
AUTOCENTRIC, BUSINESS PARK INDUSTRIAL.
I THINK THE WORDING SHOULD BE 14 FOOT MAX AND HOPEFULLY THAT THAT SHOULD ONLY BE THE MAXIMUM THEY EVER NEED TO, AND OTHER THAN USING JUST COMMON SENSE ON WHAT THEY NEED FOR WHERE THEY NEED IT, THAT'S, I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THAT.
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BUILD WHAT THEY NEED.
UH, I MEAN, BECAUSE KEEP, IT'S EXPENSIVE, YOU KNOW, 10 FOOT VERSUS 14 FOOT, SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS EXTRA.
SO TOO BAD WE CAN'T, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE GIVE PEOPLE THE OPTIONS THAT THEY NEED TO SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO SPEND A HUNDRED DOLLARS ON SOMETHING THAT'S LIKE, DAMN, I GOT A BETTER PLACE TO PUT MY MONEY AND YOUR TIME FOR THAT MATTER.
SO, UM, I'M DONE TALKING ABOUT FENCES, BUT WAIT A MINUTE.
UM, THAT BEING SAID, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THOSE WERE THE THREE THAT TRAVIS HAD FOR US.
PHIL, DID YOU HAVE ANY DETAILS OF, UH, CHAPTERS ONE, TWO, AND THREE THAT YOU WERE CONCERNED WITH? 19.2.
ARTICLE ONE, ONE B, ONE B ONE, B ONE, I THINK, RIGHT.
PARENTS QUALITY OF LIFE APPEARANCE, UH, APPEARS IN THESE DOCUMENTS A LOT.
AND APPEARANCE IS, UH, SUBJECTIVE.
HOW DO YOU EVALUATE THAT? HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHAT'S,
[01:10:01]
WHAT'S GOOD AND WHAT'S NOT? YOU KNOW, IT, IT REPEATS YOURSELF IN A NUMBER OF DOCUMENTS AND, AND I'M NOT SURE, UM, WHO'S GONNA DECIDE WHETHER IT LOOKS GOOD OR NOT.THERE'S SOME OTHER WORDS WE CAN USE THERE.
I THINK THE KEY TO THE WORD APPEARANCE IS QUANTIFYING IT, NOT ALLOWING IT TO BE SUBJECTIVE.
EXACTLY WHAT WE TALK WHAT'S RIGHT.
AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE OR A 14 FOOT FENCE.
AND ONE'S UGLY TO ME AND NICE TO YOU, BUT AS LONG AS WE PUT A QUANTI QUANTIFIED NUMBER TO IT, IT MAKES IT OKAY.
OR MAYBE, MAYBE CONSISTENT WITH THE SURROUNDINGS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S A, THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO PUT IT.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I LOOK BACK AT SOMETHING LIKE A SANTA FE, NEW MEXICO OR SOMETHING WHERE THEY'VE MADE THAT DETERMINATION THAT YOU JUST SAID CONSISTENT WITH THE, UH, SURROUNDING SURROUNDINGS.
APPEARANCES IS A HARD THING TO YEAH.
WHAT WOULD, WHAT WORD WOULD BE A BETTER WORD? ISN'T THERE ALREADY GUIDANCE ALREADY IN THE, LIKE, THE STUFF YOU ALWAYS SHOW US, LIKE THE SETBACKS AND ALL.
THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S GUIDANCE ALREADY IN THERE.
WELL, BUT QUALITY OF LIFE IS SOMETHING THAT'S MORE BROAD.
AND SO, UH, I THINK IF YOU CAN MAKE A SENTENCE OUT OF WHAT YOU SAID PHIL, WHICH WAS, UH, CONSISTENT WITH, UM, YEAH, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO REWRITE IT.
I PROVING THE CITY'S CHARACTER.
WHAT'D YOU SAY? SO SAY CONSISTENT WITH THE AREA, SURROUNDING AREA, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
BOTH THE SURROUNDINGS AND GUIDING DEVELOPMENT IN A CONSISTENT MANNER WITH, UH, EXISTING DEVELOPMENTS WITH EXISTING, UH, DESIGN EXISTING.
DO YOU WANNA SAY DEVELOPMENT OR DO YOU WANNA SAY, YOU SAID SURROUNDING AREA.
SURROUNDING AREA, WHATEVER IT IS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THE CHARACTER OF THE EXISTING AREA.
THE CHARACTER OF THIS GUIDING DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE CHARACTER OF EXISTING OF THE EXISTING AREA.
BECAUSE THIS QUESTION, YOU WANT ME NOT TO PLAY SCRABBLE WITH YOU ENVIRONMENT? CAN WE AD LIB THIS, THE SURROUNDING AREAS? THAT SOUNDS GOOD.
IF THAT MAKES SENSE, TRAVIS, TO GUIDE DEVELOPMENT IN A CONSISTENT MANNER WITH, WITH THE EXISTING AREA.
YEAH, THAT'S, THAT, THAT'S, THAT GIVES ME BACK TO THE SANTA FE IDEA.
UM, THE GOALS OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DOWN, I GUESS WITHOUT REVIEWING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT MEANS.
WELL, I THINK WE ACTUALLY DID THAT BECAUSE WE JUST IN, WE DIDN'T NECESSARILY DO IT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT WE DID ZONE THE ENTIRE CITY FOR THE PURPOSES OF PROMOTING THE STABILITY OF EXISTING LAND.
AND THAT IS ACTUALLY IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO A DEGREE.
AND PROTECT THE EXISTING LAND USES FROM INHARMONIOUS INFLUENCES.
I WANNA KNOW WHO WROTE THAT ONE.
YEAH, ACTUALLY I LIKE THAT IT'S KIND OF AIRY FAIRY
ARE YOU GOOD WITH THAT ONE, PHIL? THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
UH, I THINK THE OTHER THING, UH, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT YOU, YOU DID SAY YOU HAVE ALREADY UPDATED THE COMMENTS RELATIVE TO ADDING SINGLE FAMILY HOMES TO, UH, URBAN TRANSITION, RIGHT? YES, SIR.
YEAH, AS I WAS READING, THAT WAS ONE OF THE ONES THAT'S KIND OF STUCK OUT TO ME.
AND SO, PHIL, ANY MORE COMMENTS, SIR?
[01:15:01]
NO, NOTHING.I'M HAPPY THAT WE'RE OFF OF FENCES
UH, SO THAT IS ARTICLES ONE, TWO, AND THREE.
TRAVIS, DO YOU, DOES STAFF HAVE ANY MORE, UH, CONCERNS, COMMENTS OF THOSE THREE? UH, IF THE COMMISSION DOES WISH, I WOULD LIKE TO KIND OF SCROLL THROUGH THE USE TABLE.
I THINK WE'VE DONE THAT A LITTLE BIT MM-HMM
UH, BUT WE HAVE, UH, KIND OF REDONE A LOT OF THE MAP, AND SO I WANTED TO REFRESH THAT AND SEE IF Y'ALL ARE INTERESTED IN ADDING USES TO ANY OF THESE ZONING DISTRICTS.
UH, THE RESIDENTIAL ONE, I THINK WE HAVE WORKED OUT PRETTY WELL.
UM, LIKE WE SAID, THE URBAN TRANSITION DOES PERMIT CONVENTIONAL DETACHED HOMES.
NOW, DUPLEXES ARE PERMITTED IN EVERY RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICT BESIDES THE RURAL INTERSTATE.
AND THAT'S BY, RIGHT? MM-HMM
IF SOMEBODY WAS TO CONVERT THEIR GARAGE ATTIC, THAT'S NOT CONSIDERED CONSIDERED AN APARTMENT, RIGHT? NO.
THAT, THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, ASSUMING IT WAS, IT'S A SELF-CONTAINED, YOU KNOW, UNIT.
UM, GROUP LIVING HOME IS BY RIGHT IN THOSE, ALL OF THOSE AREAS.
YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE? WELL, IT DO, IT'S PROTECTED BY, BUT WE WENT THROUGH THIS.
NO, I, I, I UNDERSTAND, BUT IT'S PROTECTED IN OUR CITY.
BUT IS IT PROTECTED? DO WE HAVE TO HAVE IT IN EVERY SINGLE? IT IS PROTECTED AT STATE LEVEL, FEDERAL, RIGHT IN PROBABLY FEDERALIZED IN EVERY AREA.
BUT, BUT IT'S LICENSED, CORRECT? CORRECT.
THEY SHOULD HAVE THE, IT'S NOT JUST PEOPLE LIVING TOGETHER, RIGHT? THEY SHOULD HAVE A LICENSE WITH THE STATE.
THEY SHOULD HAVE INSPECTIONS BY FIRE MARSHAL.
AND, AND MEET BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE WE HAVE PEOPLE.
NOW, IF THEY DON'T GET THEIR LICENSE, IS THERE ANY WAY OF NOT ALLOWING THEM BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T DO THE RIGHT THING FIRST? BECAUSE MOST OF THEM GET THEIR LICENSE AFTER YOU CAN PULL THEIR CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, COULDN'T YOU? IF THEY HAVE ONE, YES, SIR.
AREN'T THEY SUPPOSED TO HAVE ONE RESIDENTIAL HOMES? IS THEY GET IT ONE TIME.
AND, AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IT.
BUILDING CODE SPEAKS TO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE A CHANGE OF USE IS WHEN THAT TRIGGERS THE OCCUPANCY, THE NEW CO REQUIREMENT.
SO IF YOU HAVE A RESIDENTIAL HOME, IT'S, IT'S BASICALLY NEVER GONNA CHANGE USE.
IT'S ALWAYS GONNA BE A RESIDENTIAL HOME.
EVEN IF IT'S A GROUP HOME, IT'S STILL A RESIDENCE.
WHY WOULD THAT? IT IS CHALLENGING.
IT'S NOT THAT WE CANNOT EVERYWHERE, UH, BUT IT IS VERY CHALLENGING.
SO IF IT'S A BUSINESS, SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY? NOT, NOT IN RESIDENTIAL HOMES, BUT IT'S A BUSINESS.
I, I UNDERSTAND THE SQUEAKY WHEEL.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? NO, I DON'T.
BUT WE'VE BEEN FIGHTING THIS FOR YEARS.
UNLESS WE WANT TO GO TO THE STATE, FEDERAL AND FIGHT IT, THEY'RE PROTECTED UNDER.
WELL, I, I, I MEAN, I RESPECT THAT.
I JUST THINK THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE THE SAME REGULATION THAT EVERY OTHER BUSINESS HAS.
I RESPECT THE FACT THAT THEY'RE, THAT THEY HAVE ALLOWED THEM, BUT MM-HMM
THEY SHOULD HAVE THE SAME THING AS IN ANY OTHER BUSINESS, SHOULDN'T THEY? AND THEY MAKE 10 TIMES MORE.
IS IS VERY, IT HAS BEEN, IN MY EXPERIENCE, VERY CHALLENGING TO ENFORCE THAT.
BUT THEY SHOULD, WELL, WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF RESIDENTIAL? I MEAN, IS THERE A, A LIMIT OF HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN BE IN A HOME? UH, YOU'RE NOT, NOT, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS.
SO THE ZONING CODE HAS A, IT DIFFERENTIATES
[01:20:01]
BETWEEN THE NUMBER OF RESIDENTS IF IT HAS SEVEN OR MORE THAN IT IS PROHIBITED.IF IT'S LESS THAN THAT, IT IS PERMITTED.
IF THEY HAVE SEVEN OR MORE RESIDENTS, BY DEFINITION, UH, THEY'RE NOT PERMITTED UNLESS THEY'RE RELATED.
I THOUGHT I MEANT, SO YOU SAID 7, 8, 7, 7 OR MORE? NO, SEVEN OR MORE OR LESS.
SO HOW COME THE ONE NEXT TO NO, THAT WE'RE NOT, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS.
I'M TALKING ABOUT NORMAL HOME.
HOW MANY COULD YOU HAVE IT IN JUST A NORMAL HOME? YEAH, BECAUSE I KNOW THE ONE RIGHT ON FIVE 17 HAS AT LEAST 12.
WELL, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED, IS IT? I MEAN, IT WAS PREEXISTING.
HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN THERE? IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO THE PET PLACE, THE COFFEE SHOP, EVERY TIME WE GO OUT THERE.
WITH THEIR FIRE ALARMS. THERE'S AT LEAST 12.
ISN'T THERE A CAP AT EIGHT? MM-HMM
I PROMISE THEY HAVE 'EM LIVING IN THE GARAGE IN BUNKS.
THEY HAVE 'EM LIVING IN ANOTHER ROOM OUT IN THE BACK UPSTAIRS.
SO THEN THAT FALLS IN THE CATEGORY OF CODE ENFORCEMENT AT THAT POINT.
CODE ENFORCEMENT IN FIRE MARSHAL'S OFFICE.
WELL, THEY SAID UP FIRE ALARM.
CAN WE DO THAT? FIRE ALARM?
UM, GROUP LIVING? I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.
I FEEL LIKE EVERY TIME THAT THAT HAS COME ACROSS OUR DESK OR COME ACROSS THE COUNCILS, WE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT GET TOLD WHAT WE CANNOT DO.
AND THERE'S A LOT OF THOSE THINGS.
AND WE USUALLY DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO STAY IN COMPLIANCE AND PUSH THE ENVELOPE AT THE SAME TIME.
I DON'T SEE US PUSHING THE ENVELOPES.
THERE'S A FEW OF 'EM THAT ARE NOT IN BUSINESS.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS, I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY HOW, WHAT THE RULES WERE THAT WE IMPLIED AT THAT POINT, BUT THERE WERE SOME OF 'EM THAT WERE GOING FOR SUVS.
I'VE BEEN HERE, THEY MADE IT VERY EXPENSIVE FOR THEM.
WE DO HAVE A SEPARATION REQUIREMENT, UH, FOR COMMUNITY HOMES.
A PERSON WITH DISABILITIES, THEY MUST BE SEPARATED BY HALF MILE.
THE WHAT NOW? WHAT? THE USE OF COMMUNITY HOMES FOR PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES.
THEY'RE REQUIRED TO BE SEPARATED BY ANOTHER OF A SIMILAR USE BY A HALF MILE.
YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY MORE THAN HALF A MILE CLOSER TO EACH OTHER.
OH, WELL SEE, YOU CAN'T HAVE 'EM IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD, BASICALLY.
SEE, IT SAYS SIX RESIDENTS, RIGHT? SIX IN THE NUMBER OF CARETAKERS, RESIDENTS AND STAFF.
SO IF THEY, LIKE, GOING BACK TO WHAT MARJORIE SAID, IF, IF A HOME DOES COMPLIANCE IS NOT IN COMPLIANT, THEN CAN THEY BE STOPPED FROM EXISTING IN THE FUTURE THEN? BECAUSE THEY'VE DONE THAT? YEAH.
THERE, THERE IS ENFORCEMENT ON THAT.
IT, IT DOES TAKE TIME, BUT, UH, THERE IS A BURDEN OF PROOF THAT WE HAVE TO PROVE.
START OVER BY WEARING BODY CAMERA.
AND THEY CHARGE 'EM 800 TO A THOUSAND DOLLARS.
THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS THE DEVIL.
WE HAD ONE, UH, WHAT WAS IT? ACROSS FROM PINE DRIVE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF FIVE 17.
THERE WAS ALWAYS ABOUT EIGHT OR NINE CARS THERE.
BUT THEY SAID THERE WAS ONLY THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE LIVING THERE.
RECOVERY HOME, I SHOULD SAY, IN A NEIGHBORHOOD CAME BEFORE US A BUNCH OF TIMES.
AND I, I EVENTUALLY, THEY, THEY WERE FORCED TO LEAVE, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY HOW IT PLAYED OUT.
BUT IT WAS, IT WAS A DOOZY PROVING IT WAS THE DEVIL, RIGHT? NO, THOSE WERE JUST GUESTS.
THERE WAS PEOPLE COMING TO VISIT.
WELL, IT CAN BE DONE THROUGH A REPORT WHEN YOU GO OUT FOR, YEAH.
AND NOW YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT FENCES.
THEY ALL HAVE IDS THAT WOULD STAY WITH, RIGHT.
UH, SO SC IS SMALL COMMERCIAL, RIGHT? CORRECT.
SO WE'RE VERY RESTRICTIVE ON DAYCARES AND NOT ON GROUP HOMES.
AND I'M SORRY, I FIND THAT RIDICULOUS.
I HAVE KIDS RATHER RECOVERING ALCOHOLICS THAN CHILDREN MYSELF.
[01:25:01]
THAT WAS A JOKE.SO DAYCARE IS BASICALLY ALLOWED IN EVERY DISTRICT BESIDES MIXED USE IN DOWNTOWN COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS, DAYCARE'S ALLOWED, ALLOWED.
THEY, THEY ARE ALLOWED IN EVERY DISTRICT BESIDES THE MIXED USE IN DOWNTOWN.
WELL, DOESN'T THE LITTLE DEWEY SAY THAT THAT'S NOT ALLOWED, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED, ALLOWED IN RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS, RIGHT? THE HALF CIRCLE, UH, MEANS THAT THEY'RE PERMITTED WITH LIMITED USE STANDARDS.
RIGHT? SO THE LIMITED USE STANDARDS FOR, UH, THAT, SORRY, I I THINK IT'S FULL.
NO, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING HERE, GO BACK.
SO THEY'RE ONLY LIMITED TO 15,000 SQUARE FEET IN THIS SMALL SCALE DISTRICT.
SO WHAT
UM, SO IF YOU GO TO THE GROUP HOME DEALS, THEY, THEY GET EVERYWHERE.
AND IF YOU GO TO THE DAYCARES, THEY'RE EXCLUDED FROM THE FIRST HALF OF THE STUFF.
YOU KNOW THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS? YES, MA'AM.
JUST SAYING POST OFFICE IS EXCLUDED SOMEWHERE.
RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS MIXED USE IN DOWNTOWN.
HOW MANY POST OFFICER ARE WE GONNA HAVE? YOU KNOW? RIGHT.
UH, SO PROBABLY POINT OF TALKING THAT THERE'S NO EDUCATIONAL, UH, USES PERMITTED IN MIXED USE IN DOWNTOWN.
SO CITY HALL ITSELF IS NONCONFORMING EXISTING IN DOWNTOWN.
BUT THAT'S, BUT A BUT A GOVERNMENT DOESN'T HAVE TO CONFORM, RIGHT? THEY'RE EXEMPT.
AM I WRONG? UH, THEY'RE EXEMPT.
THE CITY ITSELF IS EXEMPT FROM THE ZONING REQUIREMENTS.
ANY STATE OR GOVERNMENT IS EXEMPT FROM THAT BEING SENSE IS THE WATER DISTRICT FOR THAT MATTER.
HUH? SO IS THE WATER DISTRICT FOR THAT MATTER? YEAH.
WELL, Y'ALL RECALL THAT WE, UH, DID MOVE TO STRIKE THAT, RIGHT? I DIDN'T MOVE TO STRIKE
THAT WAS, UH, A MOTION BY COUNCIL MEMBER EDMONDS.
BUT THAT WAS ALSO THE POINT WHERE WE STARTED THE CONVERSATION ABOUT CREATING A NEW ZONE THAT WAS BASICALLY ALL GOVERNMENT OWNED ZONES, RIGHT? OR, OR NON, NON-USABLE ZONES.
THIS, THIS IS WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT RIGHT HERE IS THE GOVERNMENT EXEMPTIONS.
AND WE DID DISCUSS REMOVING THAT.
HE SAID, YOU DIDN'T, BUT EDMONDS ISN'T ON PNC.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? SO HE DID IT.
HE HE HE OVERWROTE IT ON CITY COUNCIL? NO, HE'S, NO, NO, NO.
HE, HE MADE A RECOMMENDATION TO US.
HE'S THE LIAISON, UH, TO P AND Z.
SO HE MADE THE RECOMMENDATION.
AND IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, NO, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
'CAUSE YOU'RE NOT GONNA HOLD 'EM ACCOUNTABLE ANYWAY.
LIKE, THEY'RE NOT GONNA, THEY'RE NOT GONNA CONFORM EITHER WAY.
BUT WHY ARE THEY, WHY ARE THEY NOT EXEMPT WHEN THIS CITY IS EXEMPT? ALL, ALL OF 'EM ARE EXEMPT.
THAT WAS HIS WHY, HIS RECOMMENDATION.
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? YEAH.
THE WATER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN SOMEBODY MESSES WITH THE WATER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN CITY HALL.
YOU DON'T WANT, AM I WRONG? YOU DON'T HAVE YOU HAVE WATER? I LIKE WATER UNTIL I GET TOO MUCH OF IT.
SO THE USE TABLE, POST OFFICES, MEDICALS, PARKS.
AND SO AGAIN, WE NOTE THAT THERE ARE NO MEDICAL USES AND THE DOWNTOWN OR MIXED USE ZONING DISTRICT.
[01:30:01]
MAP, WE DID CUT DOWN ON THE, WHAT THE DOWNTOWN AREA IS IS SIGNIFICANTLY SMALLER NOW THAN IT WAS, UH, ORIGINALLY, BUT IT DOES INCLUDE A LOT OF THIS AREA, THE TARINI BUILDING THAT'S BEEN HISTORICALLY VACANT.I THINK WE OPENED UP A WHOLE BUNCH OF, UM, UH, COMMERCIAL PROPERTY THAT WAS DOWNTOWN.
I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GONNA GET SHORTCHANGED.
WHAT'S A, WHAT'S A MINOR UTILITY? UH, IS THAT LIKE POWER POLES AND TELEPHONE BOXES AND SUCH LIKE THAT? YEAH.
WELL, CABLE BOXES IS GONNA BE ON THE POLE, BUT YEAH, THEY'VE GOT, UH, SWITCHING STATIONS ON CORNERS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
SEW RETENTION, TELEPHONE EXCHANGE.
THEY'RE ALL BY, RIGHT? ANYWHERE, RIGHT? CORRECT.
THAT WASN'T THE CASE BEFORE, WAS IT? I DON'T THINK SO, BECAUSE I REMEMBER THAT THE, UM, IN THAT, UM, WE HAD A CELL PHONE TOWER COME IN FRONT OF US BY THE HIGH SCHOOL MM-HMM
IT, UH, AND SO THEY, IT WASN'T BY RIGHT THEN, BUT NOW IT IS BY NOW.
IF YOU ACTUALLY NOTE THE TELECOMMUNICATION TOWER IS LISTED BY ITSELF HERE.
AND SO THAT, YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT IT DID USED TO BE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
UH, NOW IT IS A LIMITED USE PERMIT.
AND WHAT THEY DID IS THEY BASICALLY TOOK ALL, UH, THE STANDARDS FROM, UH, FROM MUNI CODE AND PUT 'EM IN AS LIVING IN USE STANDARD AND SAY, HEY, YOU MEET ALL THESE REQUIREMENTS AND, AND YOUR, YOUR PERMIT WILL BE APPROVED.
ISN'T THERE LANDSCAPING REQUIREMENTS ON THAT TOO? YEAH, THAT'S, THAT WAS A QUESTION I HAD.
WAS THERE A LANDSCAPING? YEAH.
SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY DON'T FOLLOW THOSE RULES? CODE ENFORCEMENT? YES.
WELL THAT'S NICE TO SAY CODE ENFORCEMENT, BUT IF IT'S NOT HAPPENING, I MEAN, I, I UNDERSTAND.
I, I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH ATLAS TOWERS WHO'S DEVELOPED THAT SITE AND SO WE ARE WORKING THROUGH WHEN THE LANDSCAPING IS COMING.
SO HOW LONG HAS THAT BEEN? IT'S BEEN A COUPLE YEARS.
WE HAVEN'T ISSUED, YOU KNOW, REALLY OCCUPANCY OR FINALED OUT THAT PERMIT.
'CAUSE THE LANDSCAPING IS LACKING, BUT IT'S EXISTING AND WORKING, RIGHT? YES.
I MEAN I UNDERSTAND, BUT THAT'S WHEN YOU START FINDING THEM.
AND THEN THEY THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
THERE'S SOMEHOW THERE HAS TO BE A DOWNSIDE IF THEY'RE NOT COMPLIANT WITH, RIGHT.
I HAVEN'T ESCALATED TO THAT YET, BUT WE ARE WORKING ON IT.
AT WHAT POINT WOULD YOU ESCALATE THAT IF IT'S BEEN TWO YEARS? THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
AM I ALONE IN THIS? COME ON GUYS.
NO, I'M JUST TRYING TO FINISH THE TABLE.
WELL,
WE COULD TALK ABOUT, WE COULD TALK ABOUT FENCES AGAIN, I'M JUST SAYING TALK, GOING BACK TO PHIL'S DEAL ABOUT TRYING TO HAVE ANY KIND OF, UH, COMPLIANCE WITH A ROUND THE SURROUNDING AREA.
SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TWO BIG FITNESS PLACES.
'CAUSE IT'S BY RIGHT IN THOSE AREAS.
AND BECAUSE EVERYBODY WANTS TO GO TO FITNESS AREAS, GO TO WHAT? THEY ALL WANT TO GO FITNESS.
OH, THEY GOT IT ON BOTH SIDES OF THE F
THAT'S WHY
[01:35:02]
THAT, THAT IS CORRECT.AND DON'T GET ME WRONG, I'M NOT PROMOTING 'EM.
I JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS KIND OF DOES THAT, LET'S PUT 'EM RIGHT OVER THERE BY THE, WITH THE 14 FOOT.
WELL, I WAS LITERALLY, THE REASON I WAS THINKING ABOUT THAT IS LIKE HEARTBREAKERS, I WAS LIKE, WE IDENTIFY THAT AS AUTOCENTRIC NOT INDUSTRIAL.
SO IT JUST FALLS IN CATEGORY NONCOMPLIANT AT THAT POINT.
HUH? I'M NOT PUTTING A MASSAGE PLACE EITHER.
COUNTRY CLUB IN, WHERE'S THAT IN RESIDENTIAL.
SO THESE ARE ALL RESIDENTIAL AREAS, UH, YOU KNOW, REQUIRES A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
THERE WASN'T EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT THAT WAY.
I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE OLD COUNTRY CLUB HERE IN DICKINSON.
THAT WAS, IT WAS OFF BY ITSELF.
WELL, IT WAS TRACED OUT BECAUSE OF THE ZONING BACK IN OH ONE.
I DON'T THINK THERE WAS ZONING BACK THEN, HUH? YES.
NO, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED IS THEY ZONED IT ONE DAY AND THEN EVERYBODY OWNER GOT COMPLAINED ABOUT THE LOUD MUSIC.
YOU COULD HEAR 'EM ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE HIGHWAY.
OKAY, SO BEN AND BREAKFAST BY CAN CAN HAPPEN WITH A, UH, LIMITED CONDITIONAL USE OR WHATEVER WE'RE CALLING IT.
THE RURAL AND STATE ALLOWS IT BY LIMITED USE STANDARDS.
SO YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GO, UH, TO ANY MEETINGS.
UH, AND ALL THE OTHER DISTRICTS, INCLUDING A FEW COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS, UH, THEY ALL REQUIRE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WHERE YOU GO TO CITY HOUSE.
BUT THEY, BUT THEY CAN DO IT WITH THAT.
SO I THINK I'D LIKE THAT OPPORTUNITY.
SHORT TERM AND VACATION RENTAL.
LIKE IF I WANTED TO RENT MY HOUSE OUT FOR A B AND B, I'D HAVE TO GO GO BEFORE EVERYBODY.
THAT PROTECTS THE NEIGHBORHOODS.
IT LETS US GET A, YOU KNOW, TAX RECORD.
THEY, THEY SHOULD BE PAYING HOT TAXES TO THE CITY, UH, FOR RENTING THOSE ROOMS. BUT THAT'S TOO, ONCE YOU CATCH THEM, RIGHT? THAT'S TOO, ONCE YOU CATCH THEM AND THEY GET REGISTERED.
SO, UH, ACTUALLY MYSELF AND, UH, SARAH, THE FINANCE DIRECTOR HAVE BEEN KIND OF COLLABORATING ON THIS, UH, CITY COUNCIL BROUGHT IT UP FOR US TO LOOK INTO.
UH, AND SHE ENGAGED, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE FIRMS. THERE'S, THERE'S A BUNCH OF FIRMS THAT DO THIS FOR YOU AS A SERVICE, IDENTIFY, UH, AND PROVIDE PROOF OF AIRBNBS.
UH, SO WE DIDN'T MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT AT THIS TIME.
WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF TAKING ADVANTAGE OF AN EXISTING, UH, SERVICE THAT WE HAVE THAT WILL IDENTIFY THEM.
AND THEN POSSIBLY THIS COMING BUDGET YEAR, UH, WILL ENGAGE A THIRD PARTY.
UH, BUT WE, WE HAVE ANYWHERE, IT DEPENDS ON WHEN YOU CHECK, YOU KNOW, THE, THEY ONLY LIST THESE AIRBNBS DURING CERTAIN HOURS.
SO WHENEVER YOU LOOK, YOU'RE ONLY SEEING THE ONES THAT ARE CURRENTLY LISTED.
SO WE'VE GOT, UM, WE'VE HAD REPORTS OF ANYWHERE BETWEEN LIKE 47 AND THE HIGH FIFTIES OF SHORT TERM REYNOLDS SINCE TODAY, DICKINSON.
AND WE HAVE THE PANHANDLER AT THE FREEWAY.
THEY ONLY COME AFTER NOON ON FRIDAY AND WORK IT UNTIL MONDAY.
I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE, FOR THE RECORD, WE HAVE TWO APPROVED SUVS FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS.
'CAUSE I WAS JUST THINKING IF, IF THEY KNEW THEY WOULD LOSE THAT, THEY MIGHT, THEY MIGHT.
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? YOU MAKE EXAMPLE OUT OF ONE OF THEM LOSING IT AND HAVE IT IN THERE, THEN THEY WOULD BE MORE INCOMPLIANT.
IT WOULD BE MORE SALES, YOU KNOW, HOT TAX.
I THINK THE RESTAURANTS ARE GOOD.
I THINK THE RETAIL REPAIR SALES AND SERVICE IS KIND OF WHAT COULD NEED THE MOST WORK.
UH, IT DOESN'T REALLY ALLOW ANY OF THOSE IN MIXED USE OR DOWNTOWN.
THINK ABOUT A DOWNTOWN ZONING DISTRICT.
YOU THINK THERE'S GONNA BE SOME HAIR SALONS.
THERE'S GONNA BE A DOCTOR'S OFFICE, THERE'S GONNA BE UH, SOME RETAIL SMALL SHOPS, STUFF LIKE THAT.
AND SO AT THIS TIME WE HAVE SOME LANGUAGE WHERE THE, WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT THE
[01:40:01]
PURPOSE OF THE MIXED USE DISTRICT, YOU KNOW, SAYS ALLOW FOR SMALL RETAIL.UH, AND SO I'VE, I'VE BEEN ALLOWING IT BASED ON THAT, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO CLEAN UP THIS TABLE AND, AND I'D LIKE TO SEPARATE REPAIR AND, AND RETAIL SALES, YOU KNOW, UH, I DON'T KNOW.
SOMEHOW I THINK OF SMALL ENGINE REPAIR AND YOU KNOW, REPAIR CAN BE PHONE REPAIR.
WE HAVE A DIFFERENT, UH, CATEGORY FOR AUTOMOBILE REPAIR.
DOES ANYBODY REPAIR THEIR TELEVISION?
REMEMBER PAYING $800 TO GET MY PLASMA FIXED THE LAST TIME THAT'LL HAPPEN.
UH, NO TRAVIS, I WOULD CONCUR, SIR.
THE, UH, MIXED USE IN THE DOWNTOWN.
I THINK THAT ONE COULD, UH, LIMITED USE REPAIR.
THAT WAS KIND OF YOUR INTENT THERE.
UH, SO IF WE DO LIMITED USE, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE STANDARDS FOR.
SO WE CAN LOOK AT WHAT THEY HAVE HERE.
IS THIS, UH, THE ONLY LIMITED USE STANDARD WE HAVE CURRENTLY FOR IT IS RIGHT HERE.
IT LIMITS TO 15,000 SQUARE FEET DEVELOPMENT.
I JUST, AND THAT'S, WHERE ARE WE AT ON THIS? JUST WHAT SECTION? WERE YOU JUST IN THE LIMITED USE STANDARDS? SO TO GET ONE OF THESE USES PERMITTED IN SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL, YOU JUST HAVE TO BE LESS THAN 15,000 SQUARE FEET.
THAT SHOULD PROBABLY BE EXPANDED A FAIR BIT, DON'T YOU THINK? AS FAR AS LIKE PUTTING LIMITA TO D TO DOWNTOWN, BASICALLY, AND I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T WANNA GO CARRYING ON ANYBODY, BUT RETAIL REPAIR, SALES AND SERVICES, BASICALLY, AS LONG AS I'VE GOT A BUILDING LESS THAN 15,000 FEET, THEN I MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS AND THE SMALL SCALE, UH, COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICT GETS.
BUT THERE'S THINGS THAT ARE UNDER THIS.
THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER THINGS.
BUT YOU DO WANT IT IN DOWNTOWN AND, AND MIXED USE.
BUT NO, BY LIMITED USE, THEY GOTTA BE UNDER 15,000 SQUARE FEET PERIOD.
SO THOSE TWO, YEAH, IT'S PRETTY WIDE OPEN.
TOBACCO AND ALL THAT IS IN ANOTHER CATEGORY.
LIQUOR STORES, FLEA MARKETS, TOBACCO STORES, ADULT PLACES.
WHERE, WHERE DOES IT SAY ABOUT MASSAGE PLACES? I THINK THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE FALL UNDER SERVICE.
I WAS HOPING YOU WERE GONNA SAY MEDICAL
I WAS REALLY HOPING YOU WERE GONNA SAY MEDICAL.
JUST ASKING, ASKING FOR A FRIEND.
READ ABOUT IT ON THE INTERNET.
THEY ALLOWED TO HAVE SHOWER, UH, SERVICE, RIGHT? TATTOOS.
THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO.
RIGHT? IT IT IS PERMITTED YET.
I DON'T THINK IT'S IN MEDICAL.
UM, WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, THE, THE ORIGINAL INTENT IN THE DOWNTOWN WAS A WALKABILITY FACTOR, YOU KNOW, AND WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO DO IN A WALKABILITY AREA? YOU KNOW, YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE A LOT OF SERVICES THERE.
LIKE TO HAVE MY HUSBAND
YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE PLACES TO EAT.
PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, THEY GOT RESTAURANTS UP THERE.
I THINK THOSE ARE LOUD IN, UH, DOWNTOWN MIXED USE.
ARE THEY NOT RESTAURANTS? THEY ARE.
AND YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT, A HUNDRED PERCENT RIGHT.
I MEAN, WHAT ABOUT THE FOOD TRUCK? ARE WE FIXING THAT NOW THAT THEY'RE NOT SITTING IN THE SAME SPOT? NEVER MOVING.
[01:45:01]
A SEPARATE FOOD TRUCK ORDINANCE, UH, THAT'S NOT WITHIN THE ZONING CODE.UH, AND IT DOES HAVE A SECTION WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO MOVE EVERY FIVE DAYS.
AND SO THAT, WELL, THAT DOESN'T HAVE IT.
THEY DUMP AT NIGHT, THEY DUMP THE WATER AT NIGHT STRAIGHT.
I REALLY, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO NOT BE THERE FOR, THAT'S WHAT ORDINANCE STATES THAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO MOVE EVERY FIVE DAYS.
IT'S VERY CHALLENGING TO ENFORCE.
WHERE DO THEY MOVE TO? DO THEY MOVE ACROSS THE PARKING LOT? IS THAT SUFFICIENT? THE, THE ORDINANCE IS FAIRLY VAGUE.
WELL, THERE'S NO WAY THEY MOVE.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN CONCRETE PRACTICALLY.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW,
I I, YOU KNOW, WOULD IT BE BETTER TO HAVE A FOOD COURT? I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE THAT IT WOULD BRING THE COMMUNITY MORE TOGETHER TO HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I THINK IT LOOKS TRASHY BEING AT THE CORNERS.
AND I THINK, I THINK I, I WOULD, I MEAN, I'D LOVE TO HAVE A, JUST A FOOD TRUCK COURT, YOU KNOW? YEAH.
I THINK WE SHOULD PROBABLY STOP DISCUSSION FOR A MINUTE.
WE DO NOT HAVE A QUORUM AT THIS MOMENT.
I CAN, I SEEN BRUCE GO, BUT
I'M GONNA DO THE SAME NON QUORUM THING.
UH, SO WE'RE PAST RETAIL REPAIR SERVICES.
SCROLL DOWN A LITTLE BIT, SIR.
SELF-SERVICE STORAGE, VEHICLE SALES.
SOLID ON THAT INDUSTRIAL USES.
KIND OF HARD ON THOSE ANIMAL SLAUGHTERHOUSES.
HAVE A HEAVY, YEAH, WE ONLY HAVE ONE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL.
NOT LISTED ABOVE IS ONLY FOR, UM, SHOULD AUTOCENTRIC, SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LIGHT INDUSTRIAL MANUFACTURE ASSEMBLY.
ASSEMBLY AND PROCESSING OF INDUSTRIAL BUSINESS CONSUMER GOODS, COULD THAT BE IN AUTOCENTRIC AS, UH, LIMITED USE, WHICH WOULD GIVE 'EM A CHANCE TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT? WHETHER IT FITS THERE OR NOT? IT COULD.
DO YOU WANT LIMITED USE, UH, WHERE IT DOES NOT GO TO P AND Z OR COUNSEL OR CONDITIONAL USE WHERE IT IT WOULD BE REQUIRED? YEAH.
I LIKE THAT IS AN OUTDOOR STORAGE YARD.
I THINK THERE'S ONE THAT'S STILL OVER BY THE, IN MARYLAND, BY THE CHURCH BEING QUITE
WELL USED TO DURING THE HURRICANE.
THEY, I THINK THEY PUT ALL KINDS OF CARS OVER THERE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE STILL THERE.
IF THEY ARE, THAT'S NOT COMPLIANT.
WHAT, WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO.
IS IT IN, UH, AUTOCENTRIC OR IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO THE WHITE CHURCH.
THE ONE ON HIGHWAY THREE RIGHT BEHIND IT.
SEE WHERE IT SAYS LEGIO? OH YEAH.
WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE OUTDOOR STORAGE TO ME.
[01:50:02]
SO AS IT IS, GO BACK TO THE TABLE.
SO I MEAN, AND IT'S BEEN, IT'S BEEN NON-CONFORMING SINCE BEFORE THERE WAS A ZONING.
THEY'LL, THEY'LL SAY THEY'RE NOT STORING IT.
THEY'RE JUST MOVING 'EM FROM ONE PLACE TO THE NEXT.
AND LET'S SEE, WASTE RELATED JUNKYARD SALVAGE.
I, I DON'T, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT BEHA WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I MEAN, IF IT, IF IT IS OR ISN'T, THE AREA IS AUTOCENTRIC, WHETHER, AND IT'S ALLOWED THERE TO HAVE OUTDOOR STORAGE WITHOUT ANY FENCING OR ANYTHING.
UH, ACCORDING TO THIS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE PERMISSION TO DO IT.
BUT THAT PROPERTY HAS BEEN OWNED BY THEM BEFORE THERE WAS ZONING.
SO IT FALLS IN CATEGORY OF NON-CONFORMING.
IF THE USE EXISTED PRIOR TO WHATEVER ZONING ORDINANCE MADE IT NON-CONFORMING.
SO IF SOMEHOW IT GETS SOLD OR ANYTHING ELSE, IT'S NON, THAT IT CAN'T BE ALLOWED.
IF THE USE, UNLESS THEY GET PERMISSION, THE USE WOULD NEED TO BE ABANDONED FOR 12 MONTHS.
OPEN USES AGRICULTURAL SALES AND SERVICES NURSERIES.
I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS THE SAME OF THINGS SHOULD APPLY FOR EVERYONE, NOT JUST PEOPLE WE KNOW OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW? WELL, THAT'S THE, THE CHALLENGE OF DICKINSON AND THAT THE CITY IS ONE OF THE OLDEST CITIES IN GALVESTON THAT REFUSED TO BE A CITY FOR THE LONGEST TIME IN GALVESTON COUNTY.
AND SO, AND WE DIDN'T EVEN INTRODUCE ZONING UNTIL I THINK 2001.
SO THERE ARE A LOT OF BUSINESSES THAT WERE THERE BEFORE 2001 THAT, I MEAN, WE'VE GOT A BODY SHOP IN THE MIDDLE OF A NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT'S BEEN THERE SINCE THE SEVENTIES.
AND IF HIM AND HIS SON EVER PASS AWAY, IT'LL STOP BEING A BODY SHOPS.
I THINK HE ACTUALLY DID PASS AWAY.
BUT THAT'S THE WAY HEARTBREAKING IS SUPPOSED TO BE TOO.
THEY THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED, THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO SELL IT.
WELL, HE WAS ALLOWED TO SELL IT, BUT IT STAYED THE EXACT SAME THING.
SO, I MEAN, THE USE DIDN'T LEAVE WITH THE OWNER.
THE USE STAYED WITH THE BUILDING.
AS LONG AS THEY'RE USING IT FOR THAT.
KINDA LIKE HE WAS SAYING, IF THEY EVER QUIT BEING AN ADULT SITE FOR 12 MONTHS, THEN THEY LOSE THEIR, UH.
BUT I THOUGHT, AND I COULD BE WRONG, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS, IT HAD TO STAY IN THE ARMSTRONG.
IT, IT'S NOT THE, THE USE IS CRITICAL.
NOT THAT, I MEAN, IF, IF ARMSTRONG WANTED TO GIVE IT TO HIS SON YEAH.
THEN IT WOULD STILL BE THE SAME SOUP.
AND SO THEY CAN SELL IT AS MANY TIMES THEY WANT.
IT'S THE, THE USE OF THE PROPERTY.
SO ANYWAY, UM, THAT BEING SAID, GUYS, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS ON CONSOLIDATED USE TABLE? TRAVIS STAFF HAVE ANY COMMENTS? ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD TO IT? UH, NO, NOT AT THIS TIME.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IT IS EIGHT 30 AND I WAS TIRED WHEN I GOT HERE, SO IF ANYBODY DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD, I WOULD DEFINITELY ENTERTAIN A, UH, MOTION TO ADJOURN.