* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. UH, SHE'S GOT [00:00:01] SOME, UH, CATERING TO DO TODAY. ALL [1. CALL TO ORDER AND CERTIFICATION OF A QUORUM] RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, EVERYBODY. IT IS CURRENTLY, THIS IS DINNER, NINE O'CLOCK. WE'RE GOING TO GET THIS MEETING TO ORDER. I DON'T HAVE THE AGENDA IN FRONT OF ME, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL WING IT. CAN YOU RUN A ROLL CALL, PLEASE, SIR? BRUCE HENDERSON. HERE, MA'AM. MARJORIE MORGAN. DEBORAH FORTNER. HERE. JOHN HARRIS. HERE. PHILLIP LIPOMA HERE. AND WILLIAM BROWN. WE HAVE QUORUM. ALL RIGHT. UM, IF ANYBODY DOESN'T MIND, WE'LL PASS ON THE INVOCATION AND THE, UH, SINCE THIS IS JUST A WORKSHOP, UH, [PUBLIC COMMENTS] ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS, AND I KNOW WE HAVE SOME HERE, AND IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANNA SAY BEFOREHAND, GREAT. OTHERWISE, WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA BE MILLING AROUND THE ROOM AND WE'RE GOING, UH, DIDN'T TAKE ALL YOUR COMMENTS AT THAT POINT. I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T SIGN UP, BUT I CAN TELL YOU SOMETHING. BY ALL MEANS. NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE. LA DONNA HOOVER. 7 1 3 SHERWOOD FOREST DRIVE. UM, IT HAS COME RECENTLY TO MY ATTENTION THAT THIS LITTLE TINY STRIP ABOUT 200 FEET SOUTH OF HUGHES ROAD IS NOW, UM, RESIDENTIAL, AND THERE'S AT LEAST ONE COUNCIL PERSON WHO RECOMMENDS IT BE SMALL COMMERCIAL. WELL, I KNOW THAT SOME OF THE PEOPLE HERE WHO BOUGHT 10 ACRES BUILD AN ESTATE, PUT THEIR HOME THERE. IT'S THEIR PROPERTY. YOU CAN DRIVE BY IT. IT'S GOT A WHITE FENCE. I MEAN, IT'S A NICE ESTATE TYPE PROPERTY. I DON'T THINK IT'S RIGHT TO TAKE 200 FEET OF THEIR PROPERTY FROM THE ROAD IN AND JUST MAKE IT SMALL COMMERCIAL. OKAY? I THINK YOU SHOULD LEAVE THOSE PEOPLE ALONE. DULY NOTED. MOST LIKELY. WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT THAT VERY SOON. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MA'AM. [3.A Discussion and possible action to recommend amendments to the City’s Unified Development Code and/or zoning map.] ALL RIGHT. UH, NEW BUSINESS, UH, DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE ACTION TO RECOMMEND AMENDMENTS TO THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND OR ZONING MAP. ALL RIGHT. AND NOW WE OPEN THE, THE FLOOR AND THE WHOLE ROOM. AND TRAVIS, YOU, I'M ASSUMING YOU HAVE A PLANS BY ALL MEANS, AND I DIDN'T MEAN THAT TO BE CONDESCENDING. UH, GOOD MORNING. UH, THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US. UH, I DID JUST WANT TO MENTION, UH, THAT I REALLY APPRECIATE, UH, STAFF FOR MAKING THIS MEETING HAPPEN. UH, MULTIPLE DEPARTMENTS ARE INVOLVED. IT, CITY SECRETARY, UH, PD, UH, CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE, UH, LIBRARY, BIG HELP. UH, SO WOULDN'T BE HERE WITHOUT 'EM. UM, I THINK WE'LL SPEAK FOR ALL OF US. SAY WE AGREE. YEAH. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE TODAY, TOO. YEP. LET ME GRAB THIS REMOTE. UH, SO I HAVE A LOT OF SLIDES TODAY, AND WE CAN GO THROUGH ALL OF THEM, OR WE CAN GO THROUGH NONE OF THEM, HOWEVER MUCH, UH, Y'ALL WOULD REALLY LIKE. UM, I CAN TOUR Y'ALL THROUGH OUR WEBSITE AND, AND KIND OF GET A BRIEF SUMMARY ON HOW WE GOT HERE. UH, OR I CAN GIVE YOU A TOUR OF OUR DIGITAL GIS MAP. I WOULD, I I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD, MS. NBER. I, I HAVE A BIG QUESTION BEFORE WE START. MM-HMM . ANY OF THIS MM-HMM . COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. DO WE HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN? YES, MA'AM. WHAT, WHAT YEAR IS IT? 16. IT'S 20 FROM 2045. WHAT IS THE CURRENT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN NOW? WHAT'S THE INITIATION DAY OF THAT? TWO, 2016 2022 THAT WAS NEVER APPROVED BY COUNSEL. LET ME DO THE BRIEF SUMMARY. OKAY. OKAY. SOUND GOOD? IT'S IMPORTANT TO START HERE. IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND GOALS BEFORE YOU JUST START. ABSOLUTELY. IN LINE WITH YOUR QUESTION, 2016, THEY WROTE A COMP PLAN AND IT WAS NO, I KNOW. I WAS PART OF THAT. AND IT WAS RATIFIED BY THE COUNCIL. YES, I KNOW. BUT 20, 20 SOMETHING, THEY WROTE A NEW ONE. I KNOW THAT. BUT IT NEVER GOT APPROVED THROUGH COUNCIL. THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE SAID, BUT HE'S SUGGESTING THAT'S NOT THE CASE. GOTTA MAKE SURE THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH. SO JUST SO WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR, THIS IS OUR CITY WEBSITE. I'M GONNA GO TO COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, PLANNING AND ZONING, AND THEN LONG RANGE PLANNING. THIS IS WHERE WE HAVE MOSTLY INFORMATION FROM THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. AND IT STARTS OUT WITH THE ORDINANCE WHERE THE CURRENT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WAS ADOPTED IN 2023. AND THAT IS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR 2045. YEAH. SO IT, SO IT'S THE NEW ONE? THIS IS THE NEW ONE. YES, MA'AM. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'M VERY CURIOUS THAT THE ENTIRE COUNCIL DID NOT KNOW THAT, INCLUDING THE CITY MANAGER AND THE LAWYER UNDERSTOOD. AS I UNDERSTOOD IT, THEY SAID THAT THAT WAS NEVER PUT ON THE AGENDA FOR VOTING. UH, I DON'T RECALL BEING PRESENT. THE MEETING, THAT CONVERSATION THAT WAS, WE HAD THE JOINT SESSION. I ASKED THAT SPECIFIC QUESTION, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO THROW YOU UNDER THE BUS. I KNOW, I SEE WHAT IT SAYS RIGHT [00:05:01] THERE. MM-HMM . UH, I WOULD JUST VERY MUCH LIKE CHASE TO TAKE A, A LOOK AT THAT, TO KNOW IT . YEAH. BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, AGAIN, THAT QUESTION WAS ASKED MULTIPLE TIMES AND WE GOT A DIFFERENT ANSWER. OKAY. SO THE, BUT THAT BEING SAID, IN LINE WITH MS. BUTTNER'S REQUEST, I SEE IT RIGHT THERE. I SEE THE FORMER MAYOR'S, UH, SIGNATURE ON IT, AND I HAVE A DATE AND EVERYTHING. SO THAT TELLS ME THEN IT IS OFFICIAL AT THIS TIME. YES, SIR. UNTIL SOMEBODY SAYS DIFFERENTLY. THAT IS CORRECT. AND SO THE SAME PAGE CONTAINS, UH, ALL THE INFORMATION FROM THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. UH, I WON'T GO THROUGH IT AT THIS TIME IS PRETTY LONG, BUT I'M MORE THAN WELCOME. ARE YOU, UH, EXCUSE ME, TRAVIS. I DON'T THINK, YES, MA'AM. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE HERE. I'M SUPPOSED TO WAIT FOR EVERYTHING, OR IF I GET IT , UH, WE, WE CAN KEEP IT PRETTY OPEN CONVERSATION. OKAY? YEAH. OKAY. QUESTION. UH, WHAT DOES THIS SHOW THE GOALS? UH, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, I MEAN, IN LONG FORMAT. YES, MA'AM. OKAY. I WONDER IF THEY'RE THE SAME GOALS I PICKED UP. WHAT YEAR WAS THAT? 20 22, 23 3. YEAH, THE, THE ORDINANCE WAS PASSED. UH, MAY, 2023. SO ARE THEY, LIKE, ARE THESE THE GOALS? UH, LAND USE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, HOUSING? UH, WHICH I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU REFERENCING. I I JUST WANNA KNOW THE GOALS THAT WE'RE STARTING WITH, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT EVERYTHING SHOULD BE BASED ON, IS OUR GOALS FROM THE ADOPTED COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. YES, MA'AM. UH, LET ME SEE IF THERE'S A BETTER VERSION OF THIS. WE DON'T HAVE GOALS. HOW DO WE MAKE CHANGES OR HOW DO WE DO ANYTHING? WELL, AND THAT'S, I MEAN, YEAH, SERIOUSLY, I, I A HUNDRED PERCENT AGREE WITH YOU, BUT I CAN'T WRAP MY HEAD AROUND IT. IF THE COMP PLAN TALKS ABOUT FRICKING DENSITY MANAGEMENT, BUT IT, WHICH IS THE POLAR OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE ALL RIGHT. COUNCIL SAID THE OTHER DAY. BUT IT HAS TO, AND IF IT SAYS IT IN THE COMP PLAN, THEN TECHNICALLY WE'RE SUPPOSED TO COMPLY WITH IT. BUT IT HAS TO START WITH GOALS. AND IF WE'RE HAVING THIS MUCH TROUBLE FINDING THEM, WHAT DOES THIS SAY? SOMEWHERE I FOUND SOME OUT TO YEAH, I, I DO APOLOGIZE. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ALL HAD A COPY OF THE CURRENT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. WELL, AGAIN, WE BROUGHT THAT QUESTION UP AT THE JOINT MEETING, AND I WAS TOLD AT THAT TIME, VERY UNEQUIVOCALLY, 2000, YOU ARE THROWING PAPERS OVER IT. MAN. 2016 WAS THE ONE, AND THAT THE 2022 HAD NOT BEEN VOTED ON BY COUNSEL. IT WAS WRITTEN, NO. UH, SO I BELIEVE I, I, I RECALL THIS CONVERSATION THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO. NOW, THE QUESTION WAS IF IT WAS VOTED ON, IT WAS RATIFIED. YEAH. UH, SO IT WAS NOT REQUIRED TO GO TO VOTE. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE VOTED BY THE CITY. THAT WAS CONFIRMED BY THE MAYOR. RIGHT. BUT THE, EXCUSE ME, THE, UH, LAWYER. RIGHT. BUT IT WAS STATED THAT COUNCIL HAD TO VOTE ON IT, AND THE COUNCIL THAT WAS THERE AT THAT TIME SAID, NO, WE NEVER VOTED ON IT. THESE ARE GOALS THAT I FOUND. AGAIN, TRAVIS NOT QUESTIONING YOU. I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SHOWING ME. I I'M JUST REPEATING WHAT COUNCIL SAID AT THAT TIME. OKAY. AND I HAVE JUST REACHED OUT TO A COUPLE OF COUNCILMEN TO SAY, HEY, AM I WRONG? GOALS? I COUNT. SO, BUT I MEAN, I SEE THE PAPER THERE. I SEE THERE'S A SIGNATURE ON IT. SO WHAT I JUST PUT IN FRONT OF YOU, THE GOALS THAT I FOUND MM-HMM . AND SINCE WE'RE HAVING TROUBLE FINDING ANY OTHER GOALS, PERHAPS THESE ARE THE GOALS NEAR VICTORY LAKES. IT SAYS, IT SAYS LIKE, UM, COMMERCIAL, LIKE VICTORY LAKES. HMM. IT RECOMMENDS LIKE THE HAVE, UM, SO I'M SORRY. LET ME TELL YOU WHAT THIS IS. MM-HMM . SO THE GOALS ARE ON TOP. I PLUGGED THIS INTO AI AND THAT'S WHAT THEY CAME UP WITH. ON THE BOTTOM FROM THE CURRENT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. YEAH. DO YOU WANNA TAKE A COPY OF THIS? IS THERE A PAGE? SO THIS IS, THESE ARE THE GOALS THAT I FOUND THAT IN OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WEBSITE OR WHOEVER I NEED TO, THAT'S MY COPY. OH, SORRY. NO, I MEAN YOU NEED BOTH. AND THEN I PLUGGED IT INTO AI. AND SO THE BOTTOM ARE THE CHANGES THAT SUGGESTED, [00:10:01] BUT I JUST SENT THE, GAVE THESE TO YOU SO YOU CAN SEE THE GOALS THAT WE SUPPOSEDLY HAVE. WERE YOU ABLE TO GRAB THE REFERENCES FROM, HUH? WERE YOU ABLE TO GRAB THE REFERENCES FROM THE AI SO WE CAN PULL IT UP ON THE COMPUTER WHERE, GRAB THE INFORMATION FROM? UH, LET ME FIND OUT. I NEED A COPY OF THAT AI, SOMETHING VERY UN YEAH, THAT'S FINE. I MEAN, I'M JUST TELLING YOU THE GOALS ARE UP ON TOP AND THOSE ARE OURS. SO JUST INTERESTING. BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE'VE GOTTA KNOW OUR GOALS BEFORE WE START. I DON'T CARE. MUST BE AT MY, AT AT MY HOUSE. I DID THIS. NOT HERE. SORRY. HAVE YOU FOUND THEM? UH, UH, I MEAN, I HAVE NOT FOUND A SPECIFIC SECTION FOR GOALS. THERE'S THIS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS, IS VERY LARGE AND IT'S, IS EXPLAINS GOALS IN MULTIPLE AREAS. IT EXPLAINS DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT SCENARIOS IN MULTIPLE AREAS THAT THAT CAN PROMOTE GROWTH. TRAVIS LOOKING AT THE, UH, CHAPTER ONE AT THE VERY, THE NEXT TO THE LAST SHEET, OR, UH, PAGE THIRD FROM THE LAST, IS THAT THE 2022, UH, 1.38. THAT'S IT. UH, THIS ONE. THIS ONE. THERE YOU GO. IS THIS CONDITION AND NO, THAT'S NOT GOING ESTABLISHED DOWNTOWN CENTRAL CORE. YEAH. AND I, I DON'T SEE WHERE ANY OF THIS IS RELATIVE TO PLANNING AND ZONING. LEMME CLARIFY THAT WITH ZONING, NOT THE PLANNING PART. THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN HAS COVERS EVERY ASPECT OF THE CITY. MM-HMM . UH, NOT, NOT JUST LAND, LAND USE, UH, BUT IN, IN THIS, THESE ITEMS, IT DOES, UH, HAVE CERTAIN, UH, CERTAIN AREAS OF THAT INCORPORATES LAND USE. LIKE, UH, ESTABLISH MAKES, USE ACTIVITY CENTER IMPROVE. UH, SO PROVIDE A VARIETY OF HOUSING TOPOLOGIES. YEAH. AND FORGIVE ME, I'M GONNA INTERRUPT FOR JUST A SECOND 'CAUSE KIND OF IN LINE WITH WHAT DEBORAH JUST SAID HERE IS MAKING SURE WHAT IS OUR GOALS TODAY AND PROBABLY MULTIPLE MEETINGS IN THE FUTURE. IT'S, IT'S NOT TO REVIEW OR QUESTION THE COMP PLAN. UH, THIS IS AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, TO GIVE THIS COMMISSION'S COMMON SENSE APPROACH SLASH QUESTIONS RELATING TO ONE, HOW WE SEE THE UDC, WHICH IS SPECIFICALLY IN THIS CASE, TALKING ABOUT THE ZONING DESCRIPTIONS, THE INDIVIDUALS AND THEIR ACTUAL TITLES. THEN THE NEXT QUESTION AFTER THAT IS FOR US TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE MAPS AND IDENTIFY THAT AS WE UNDERSTAND IT, AS WE ARE ALL VERY PERSONAL TO THIS CITY. AND WE KNOW JUST ABOUT EVERY LOT THAT'S WITHIN THE CITY BOUNDARIES IS TO QUESTION THAT THE CURRENT ZONING IS ACCURATE FOR THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. I MEAN, KIND OF ANYBODY DISAGREE WITH ME THAT CAN MAKE SURE THAT'S KIND OF WHAT OUR GOALS ARE. AND IT IS KIND OF A, IT'S A DAUNTING TASK, BUT, UH, I THINK THAT IS REALLY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE HERE. NOT, NOT REVISITING AND, AND QUESTIONING THE COMP PLAN PER SE, OTHER THAN TO MAKE SURE IF THERE'S ANY DETAILS IN IT THAT THEY SAY, HEY, BY THE WAY, THIS SUBDIVISION RIGHT HERE, WE HAVE A PLAN THAT IT'S GOING TO BECOME X. SO WE DON'T DISAGREE WITH IT. SO THE, THE REASON I BROUGHT THIS UP, SO THE PURPOSE FOR EVEN DOING ANYTHING, IT SAYS THE CITY COUNCIL ADOPTS THIS UDC TO PROTECT THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WEALTH GENERAL. THIS IS RIGHT ON THE DEAL GENERAL WELFARE OF THE CURRENT AND FUTURE RESIDENT CITIZENS AND INHABITANTS OF THE CITY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE GOALS OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THIS, THE PROVISIONS OF THE UDC ARE [00:15:01] SPECIFICALLY INTENDED TO FOLLOW THE GOALS. WELL, IF WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, I'M JUST SAYING, YOU SEE, HOW CAN YOU ZONE OR DO ANY IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE FOUNDATION. SO THAT'S MY LAST TIME TO BEAT THAT . BUT THEN WE CAN GO NO, I I YOUR HANDS EVERYWHERE. I GET YOUR POINT, MA'AM. AND THAT'S IN LINE PERFECTLY IN LINE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS, AND THIS IS WHERE I'M GONNA DEFER TO TRAVIS TO BE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THIS COMP PLAN. I GET BACK TO PERCENT OVERALL, LOOKING AT THIS ENTIRE MAP THAT'S ON HERE RIGHT NOW. I THINK THERE'S, THERE'S FIVE OF US SITTING HERE TODAY THAT KNOWS EVERY ONE OF THESE LOTS IN SOME FORM OR FASHION. AND WE KNOW THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE. WE KNOW WHERE THE HISTORY, WE HAVE AN IDEA OF KIND OF WHAT THE PLANNING IS. UM, AND I THINK THIS IS WHERE WE APPLY OUR OWN EXPERIENCE AND OUR COMMON SENSE. 'CAUSE AGAIN, THIS IS ALL JUST RECOMMENDATIONS. COUNCIL CAN TOSS THIS ALL. WE HAVE THE RIGHT AND THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE ALL OF OUR RECOMMENDATIONS TO CHANGE THIS THE WAY THAT WE PERSONALLY SEE THAT IT SHOULD BE, UH, COUNCIL HAS THE RIGHT TO GO. YOU'RE NOT COMPLYING WITH THE COMP PLAN ON THESE PORTIONS OR ALL OF IT FOR THAT MATTER. BUT THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO DO. NOW, I WOULD ASK TRAVIS TO BE VERY CON UH, AWARE OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. IS THERE ANY SPECIFIC, AS WE ARE TALKING, BY THE WAY, I DON'T WANNA DIE ON THE HILL TODAY, BUT AS WE'RE TALKING, IF THERE ARE SECTIONS OF THE COMP PLAN THAT SAYS, BY THE WAY, THIS AREA RIGHT HERE PER THE COMP PLAN IS GOING TO BE USED FOR X IN THE FUTURE. AND SO THEREFORE WE NEED TO ADDRESS THE ZONING OF IT TODAY. IF NOTHING ELSE, JUST TO PUT IT AS FUTURE IDENTIFYING IT AS SUCH. SO WE'RE ADJUSTING FOR TODAY AND ALSO BEING AWARE OF WHAT THE FUTURE PLAN IS. OKAY. DOES ANYBODY AGREE OR DISAGREE? WANNA EXPAND ON THAT? PHIL, YOU GOT COMMENTS? I AGREE. UH, UH, AT ONE POINT BEFORE WE START TALKING ABOUT SPECIFICS, I'D LIKE TO DISCUSS THE VARIOUS ZONES. LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATIVE CONSERVATION AND GENERAL RESIDENCE. SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE ITEM NUMBER ONE. OKAY. AND AGAIN, IN LINE WITH WHAT SHE WAS SAYING, THE GOALS, OKAY, WE GOT A BIG CITY WITH A LOT OF COVER COLORS ON IT, RIGHT? WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT, HEY, BY THE WAY, GREEN MEANS THIS. RIGHT? AND WE ALL UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT DEFINITION MEANS. AND IF WE DISAGREE WITH THAT DEFINITION, BY THE WAY, THAT IS PART OF OUR, OUR, OUR DIRECTION RIGHT NOW IS FOR US TO ADDRESS OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE UDC. OKAY? AND THEY, WE WERE TOLD QUI CLEARLY BY COUNSEL, THAT IS PART OF OUR JOB TO REVIEW WHAT THE UDC SAYS AND MAKE OUR RECOMMENDATIONS. AND AGAIN, I CAN'T SAY IT ENOUGH. THESE ARE ALL JUST RECOMMENDATIONS. NOT ONE PERSON SITTING HERE IS RIGHT OR WRONG. WE DO NOT DIRECT THE CITY. WE GIVE RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCIL. SO IF WE SAY SOMETHING CRAZY AND WE ALL DECIDE, YOU KNOW WHAT? I LIKE IT. RUN WITH IT, COUNCIL MIGHT GO, PHIL, THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY INSANE. I'M NOT PUTTING THAT IN THERE. THAT'S THEIR PREROGATIVE. THEY'RE THE ELECTED OFFICIAL. EXACTLY. SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T GET HUNG UP ON THE SEMANTICS AND THE LAWS OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO. WE LITERALLY HAVE CARTE BLANCHE RIGHT NOW TO USE OUR COMMON SENSE AND OUR EXPERIENCE TO PRODUCE, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS. TRAVIS, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT? ABSOLUTELY. DO YOU THINK I'M OUTTA LINE ON ANY PART OF THAT? NO, THAT WAS CORRECT. OKAY. AND SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, I, I THINK WITH EVERYBODY'S AGREEMENT, I DO AGREE WITH PHIL RIGHT NOW THAT THE VERY FIRST THING WE SHOULD DISCUSS IS UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE UDC SAYS RIGHT NOW. I THINK WE HAVE, WHAT DO WE HAVE? 14 DIFFERENT ZONINGS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? I MADE THAT NUMBER UP. I THINK IT'S 12. 12. DAMN. I WAS CLOSE. YEAH. OKAY. SO WE HAVE 12 ZONES. AND I'M GONNA ASK, AND I'M HOPING TRAVIS, THAT UH, YOU OR YOUR TEAM IS VERY, VERY FAMILIAR TO THE LETTER ON WHAT THE VERBIAGE IS IN THESE. 'CAUSE I'M LOOKING AT RIGHT HERE. UH, THESE, THESE ARE ALL OF 'EM, SIR. SO THIS IS, UH, A DRAFT MAP. THIS IS, THIS IS OUR CURRENT ZONING MAP AND THIS IS ALL THE ZONING DISTRICTS. OKAY. SO 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10. AND THOSE ARE THE 10 THAT ARE REFERENCED IN UDC, CORRECT? YES, SIR. OKAY. I THOUGHT YOU SAID JUST A MINUTE AGO THERE WERE 12. 12. YEAH, I WAS INCORRECT. HE CHANGED IT TO 10. OKAY. SORRY. I LIKE HIS NUMBER BETTER. WHICH, WHICH OF THESE 12 ARE NOT THERE? NO, HE IS SAYING THAT THERE'S ONLY 10. YEAH, THERE'S ONLY ACTUALLY 10 IN THE UDC, SIR. OH, OKAY. 10. THAT'S THESE 10 HERE. OKAY. YOU MIND GOING BACK TO THAT? OKAY, KEEP IT. SO THIS IS A OLD ZONING MAP WHICH HAD HAD 11 ZONING DISTRICTS. OKAY. PLUS, UH, SPECIAL USE [00:20:01] PERMITS. SO IS THERE A POSSIBILITY, I DON'T KNOW IF HOW YOU CAN DO THIS COMPUTER WISE. I GOT 11 OLD ZONING, YOU GOT 10 NEW ZONING. MM-HMM . IS THERE ANY WAY TO PUT THOSE NEXT TO EACH OTHER SO WE CAN GO, OKAY, BY THE WAY, CONVENTIONAL RESIDENTIAL CR IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS X AND Y OR JUST X. SO THAT, THAT HELPED 'CAUSE ME PERSONALLY, AND I THINK SEVERAL HERE, THIS OLD ZONING RIGHT HERE, I'M VERY, VERY FAMILIAR WITH ALL THE DEFINITIONS AND THE, THE PURPOSES OF IT. I HAVE TO ADMIT MY IGNORANCE THAT I AM NOT THAT UP TO SPEED WITH THE NEW ZONING DESCRIPTORS. BUT IF THEY CORRELATE DIRECTLY OVER, I THINK WE CAN USE THAT. WOULD YOU AGREE? AND THEN ALSO MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE DIFFERENCES ARE AND MAYBE WE NEED TO CHANGE THE TERMINOLOGY TO MAKE SOME PARTS OF IT CLEAR. UM, SO I THINK IT, UH, DOING THAT ON THE SPOT, PUTTING EACH MAP SIDE BY SIDE IS, WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT CHALLENGING AT THIS TIME. NOT THE MAP, SIR. JUST THE DESCRIPTORS. THE DESCRIPTION OF THE CURRENT JUST CODE, THE ZONING DESCRIPTORS. WELL, IF HE KEEPS 'EM UP LIKE THIS, LIKE HE DID, AND YOU LOOK DOWN HERE, YOU CAN SEE, CAN'T YOU? OR NOT? WELL, ON THE OLD MAP, MOST OF THE RESIDENTIAL WAS GENERAL RESIDENTIAL. ON THE NEW MAP WE'VE GOT NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERV CONSERVATION AND GENERAL RESIDENTIAL. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? WHY SHOULDN'T THAT ALL BE ONE ZONE? SO I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE, THOSE TWO ZONING DISTRICTS WERE CREATED FOR A LITTLE BIT OF DIFFERENT REASONS. THE GENERAL RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT IS MORE FOR, UH, LIKE NEW DEVELOPMENT. IF YOU COME IN AND YOU WANNA DO A NEW SUBDIVISION, THE GENERAL RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICT WILL FIT THAT THE BEST BECAUSE IT HAS, UH, STANDARDS THAT ARE SET. THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION ZONING DISTRICT WAS KIND OF PITCHED AS A, AN INFILL TYPE OF, UH, ZONING DISTRICT TO WHERE THE STANDARDS FOR THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBLE AS FAR AS SETBACKS, AS FAR AS LOT SIZE, UH, STUFF LIKE THAT. IT'S A DISTRICT THAT IS SUPPOSED TO FIT, UH, THE CHARACTER OF THE EXISTING NEIGHBORHOOD. TRAVIS, WHAT YOU JUST DID RIGHT THERE IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M ASKING YOU TO DO. OKAY? AS FAR AS WE HAVE THE OLD, EXACTLY AS PHIL SAID, WE HAVE THE OLD GENERAL, UH, RESIDENTIAL. OKAY. THOSE ARE BOTH CURRENT ZONING DISTRICTS. GENERAL RESIDENTIAL, CAN YOU PUT THE TWO OF 'EM AGAIN? I, I JUST NEED TO SEE THE OLD AND THE NEW NEXT TO EACH OTHER. SO IN MY HEAD I CAN LITERALLY CALL IT GENERAL RESIDENTIAL OR WHATEVER IT IS, IS THE SAME THING AS THE TWO THAT PHIL JUST REFERENCED. AND ONE OF THEM IS FOR OLD CONSTRUCTION AND ONE IS FOR NEWER CONSTRUCTION. AND THERE'S A LOT MORE DETAILS THAN THAT. BUT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO BALLPARK IT SO THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH OUR UNDERSTANDING, BECAUSE THAT'S A HUGELY DIFFERENT ZONING REQUIREMENT. WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO SEE THESE LOTS AND GO, MAN, THAT'S AN OLDER NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT NEEDS TO BE ZONED FOR THAT OLDER NEIGHBORHOOD. THAT'S A LOT. YOU KNOW, UH, ST. EDMONDS GREEN IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE THAT SHOULD BE ZONED TO THE NEWER ONE. 'CAUSE THERE'S A SUBDIVISION EXPECTED TO BE BUILT INTO THERE. KIND OF DOVETAILS INTO HER COMMENTS ABOUT, UH, SOUTH OF HUGHES ROAD, YOU KNOW, IS THAT GOING TO BE SUBDIVISIONS LATER ON? WHICH BY THE WAY, WE DO KNOW FOR A FACT 10,000 HOMES ARE GONNA BE GOING IN DUE SOUTH OF THAT. OKAY. WELL THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME CORRELATION BETWEEN THE TWO, RIGHT? SO THIS IS A, JUST A SCREENSHOT OF A MAP THAT SHOWS THE CURRENT GENERAL RESIDENTIAL ZONING LOCATIONS IN THE CITY. UH, I KNOW THE COLOR'S A LITTLE BIT OFF, BUT, OKAY. YEAH, I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE LOTS YET. LET'S MAKE SURE WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ON THE DESCRIPTORS. 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW WE DON'T. SO YOU LIKED WHAT HE JUST DID? WHY, WHY DON'T WE LET HIM FINISH OUT THE REST OF THE NEW STUFF? LIKE WHAT, WHAT THE INTERPRETATION OF URBAN TRANSITION IS AND DOWN, DOWN, DOWN. WOULD THAT HELP? I THINK, HELLO? IS THIS WHAT YOU'RE, IS THIS KIND OF WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR? THE DESCRIPTION OF EACH ZONING DISTRICT? YEAH, THAT WOULD HELP, I THINK, DON'T YOU? WELL, I THINK WHAT HE IS REALLY WANTING TO KNOW IS OLD VERSUS NEW AND WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? THAT'S IT. AND WHY DO WE NEED IT? CORRECT. YEAH. THE REASONING BEHIND IT. SO THAT'S, THAT'S IT. I NEED A LIST OF 10 ON ONE SIDE OF THE PAGE AND A LIST OF 11 ON THE OTHER. WELL, AND I WANNA PUT A AND TIE, PUT MY, MY LITTLE STICK FIGURE GOING TO THE RIGHT. THESE TWO ARE THE SAME AS THIS ONE, BUT THEY HAVE DIFFERENCES. OKAY. RIGHT. NO PROBLEM. RIGHT. JUST BECAUSE IT'S CALLED OUT IN THE UT C DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE REALLY NEED THAT. THAT'S RIGHT. WE CAN CHANGE THE UDC. THIS, THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT OF WHAT I'M KIND OF GETTING TO RIGHT NOW, AND FORGIVE ME IF I DIDN'T MAKE IT CLEAR. IS ALL THOSE COLOR DRAWINGS UP THERE, THAT'S ALL FINE AND GOOD. A LOT OF THINGS HAVE CHANGED, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, ALL THESE COLORS, IF WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THE COLOR MEANS AND THE [00:25:01] WHY THE COLOR IS THERE, WE'RE GONNA MESS IT UP. WE'RE NOT GONNA DO IT PROPERLY. AND WE ARE DEALING WITH OLD INFORMATION AND NEW INFORMATION. I UNFORTUNATELY AM OPERATING WITH OLD INFORMATION AND I'M NOT CORRELATING IT INTO THE NEW INFORMATION PROPERLY. AND THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING VERY, VERY CLEARLY. I NEED TO COMPARE THE 10 TO THE 11 AND THEN ANYTHING THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY ARE THE MATCH IN HELL, THEY MIGHT FIT IN TWO DIFFERENT PLACES. BUT AT LEAST WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHY AND HOW CAN YOU BLEND THE OLD VERSUS THE WITH THE NEW. THAT'S RIGHT. SO YEAH, BECAUSE WHAT I'M UNDERSTAND FROM WHAT I'VE UNDERSTOOD IS THE NEW PLAN, KIND OF COOKIE CUTTER, COOKIE CUT INTO WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE. IT WASN'T, UH, THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE, THIS IS WHAT IT'S GONNA TRANSITION TO AND BLEND IT. AND THAT THAT NEVER HAPPENED, CORRECT? TO A DEGREE, YES. TRAVIS, WHAT, WHAT WAS URBAN TRANSITION BACK IN THE OLD ONE? THERE WASN'T ONE. WELL, I MEAN, IT WAS PIECES HAD THE INTERSTATE ZONING, IT WAS PIECES OF PROPERTY. WHAT WERE THE PROPERTY? WERE THEY RESIDENTIAL OR, I MEAN, I KNOW SOME OF 'EM WERE RESIDENTIALS. I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S A REALLY DIFFICULT QUESTION TO ASK. IT IS. MAKES, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, IT WAS EVERYTHING. CERTAINLY THERE, THERE WAS SOME STUFF THAT WAS COMMERCIAL AND STUFF. THERE WAS RESIDENTIAL. CERTAINLY THAT, THAT'S BEEN OUR BIGGEST DEAL. RIGHT? THERE IS, I MEAN, I KNOW ALL OF 'EM ARE IMPORTANT, BUT URBAN TRANSITION HAS BEEN THE BIGGEST REASON PEOPLE HAVE COME TO THIS, UH, COMMITTEE. ALL BEING FAIR AND EQUAL IN MIND WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. IT DIDN'T TECHNICALLY EXIST. YEAH. RIGHT. OKAY. WE HAD RESIDENTIAL, BUT I, WE HAD, UH, I UNDERSTAND, BUT I JUST WONDERED WHAT PARTS WERE CRAMMED INTO IT TO MAKE IT, YOU KNOW, AND HOW, HOW, HOW FOR GOODNESS SAKES. I KNOW MR. B BRAGG'S GOT ONE PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT HAS, IT'S, HAS A LITTLE POINT ON THE, ON THE, UH, BAYOU. THAT'S URBAN TRANSITION. I'M GOING, OKAY. MM-HMM . IF, IF I COULD ASK WHAT HAS BEEN, UH, THE MOST COMPLAINTS YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT THAT DISTRICT? HUH? THE URBAN TRANSITION? MM-HMM . REALLY? YOU CUT AND DRY. THE FACT IS A MATTER THAT NOBODY CAN PUT A SINGLE FAMILY HOME IN URBAN TRANSITION. IT'S ALL SUPPOSED TO BE MULTIFAMILY. OKAY. AND, AND THE WAY THAT IT WAS DROPPED IN, AND AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO GET OFF INTO THAT TANGENT JUST YET. YEAH. BUT IT IS THE FACT THAT IN A, A REGULAR SINGLE FAMILY HOME NEIGHBORHOOD, IF THERE'S A LOT THAT WASN'T OFFICIALLY OWNED, BOOM. THAT WE'LL MAKE AN URBAN TRANSITION. SO NOW I'VE GOT A BEAUTIFUL NEIGHBORHOOD WITH WONDERFUL NEIGHBORS, AND THERE'S A QUADPLEX NEXT DOOR TO ME. UNDERSTOOD. WHAT THE HELL DID THAT HAPPEN? MM-HMM . AND IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE NOW. BUT AGAIN, FORGIVE ME, I DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THAT RABBIT HOLE YET. YOU'RE RIGHT. I'M SORRY. UNTIL WE FOCUS ON, YOU'RE RIGHT. GETTING THE RIGHT ANSWERS ON WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. 'CAUSE I MEAN, I'M DYING TO CHOMP INTO THIS AND START, YOU KNOW, COLOR CODING SQUARES ALL DAY LONG. BUT I DON'T WANNA GO HALFWAY THROUGH THE DAY IN ABOUT THREE CUPS OF COFFEE AND REALIZE S**T WE'VE BEEN WRONG THE WHOLE TIME. EXCUSE MY LANGUAGE, I APOLOGIZE. WELL, WE ARE AT THE NEXT ONE. IF IT WERE GONNA GO DOWN THE LINE, THEN THAT'S, SO IF THERE'S NO CORRESPONDING DEAL TO URBAN TRANSITION, THEN, YOU KNOW, FROM OLD TO NEW, THEN YEAH. I WOULD NOT SAY THERE'S NOT A ONE ZONING DISTRICT THAT, THAT CONVERTS DIRECTLY TO URBAN TRANSITION. THERE WAS A MULTI-FAMILY ZONING. THERE'S A HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL. CORRECT. AND WHAT THAT, THAT'S URBAN TRANSITION IS THE, THE OLD CORRELATION TO IT WOULD BE MULTI-FAMILY ZONING. I BELIEVE THAT WAS THE TERM THEY USED BACK THEN. IT WAS, IT WAS CALLED HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL. IS THAT THE, THE OLD ONE DISTRICT ON? I BELIEVE SO. THAT'S MY WHOLE POINT, TRAVIS. WE'VE GOTTA DO THE, THE DIRECT LANGUAGE COMPARATOR, HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL THAT'S ON THE OLD ONE. THAT'S THE MUNI CODE, HUH? CORRECT. OKAY. AND SO THAT DISTRICT, YOU KNOW, ALLOWED, LIKE YOU SAID, MORE DENSE DEVELOPMENT, BUT IT ALSO ALLOWED, UH, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. ALL RIGHT. DETACHED RURAL RESIDENTIAL, UH, CONVENTIONAL RESIDENTIAL. OKAY. AND I DO REMEMBER THESE AND THEY MADE SENSE. SMALL LOT RESIDENTIAL. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT ONE VERY WELL. . YEAH. I DON'T THINK THERE WAS A WHOLE LOT OF THAT. UM, IT IS KIND OF ALSO SIMILAR. HIGH DENSITY. SO WHAT WAS AUTOCENTRIC COMMERCIAL THAT MEAN? THAT WAS GONNA BE LIKE A CAR LOT. I KNOW, BUT IN THE OLD ONE, WHAT WAS IT CALLED? CAN THAT BE CONSOLIDATED WITH SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL? CAN YOU SCROLL BACK UP PLEASE? LET, LET ME WRITE THESE DOWN REAL QUICK SO I CAN KEEP MY HEAD STRAIGHT. HIGH DENSITY IS HR AND THEN MH IS MANUFACTURED HOMES. UH, COMMERCIAL. [00:30:03] WHAT DID YOU SAY, PHIL AUTOCENTRIC IS WHAT? CAN THAT BE CONSOLIDATED WITH SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL? IS THAT WHAT IT WAS? TRAVIS, CAN I SWITCH TO THE UDC? JUST WHEN MR. HENDERSON HAS DONE WRITING THIS DOWN. ONE SECOND, IF YOU DON'T MIND. YEAH. INTERSTATE. REMEMBER THAT ONE? UH, GC GENERAL AND LI LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, UH, GI GENERAL AND DESIGNATED OPEN SPACE. DON'T EVEN REMEMBER THAT ONE EITHER. PD PLAN DEVELOPMENT. ALL GOOD. ALL YOURS, SIR. THERE SHE'S, THAT'S RIGHT THERE. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE MEAN. RIGHT? AND SO THIS, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER SIMPSON POINTED THIS OUT TO ME. UH, THIS IS KIND OF A TABLE OF BEGINNING IN THE UDC THAT, UH, TALKS ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE SUGGESTED ADJACENT DISTRICTS AND FORMER ZONING DISTRICTS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO THE, TO THE CURRENT DISTRICT IN THE UDC. CAN YOU, CAN YOU PRINT THAT OUT THEN? MM-HMM . THAT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL. DO YOU MEAN RIGHT NOW OR AFTER? OH YEAH. RIGHT. SO WE CAN USE IT. OKAY. SEE WHAT HE'S SAYING? MM-HMM . SO IF WE COULD PRINT THAT, WE COULD SEE IT. YEAH. THAT'S WHY I'M WANTING TO HAVE ALL THESE LETTERS OVER HERE GOING, WHAT AM I TALKING ABOUT? WAIT A MINUTE. WHAT'S AC? IT SHOWS RIGHT THERE. WILLIAM'S, RIGHT? ? MM-HMM . AUTOCENTRIC. OKAY. THAT WASN'T ON THE LAST LIST. I DON'T REMEMBER. AN AUTOCENTRIC. YEAH. THIS, THIS IS THE NEW ONE. NEW WAS ON THE LAST, THIS IS THE UDC CART, CORRECT? YEAH. SO IT SHOWS FORMER AND THEN FEATURE. OH, OKAY. OKAY. THAT'S WHERE THE NEW JUST CAME IN. I WAS LIKE, HOW THE HELL DID THAT IN THERE? YEAH. THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO RELATE IT TO IN THE PAST. OKAY. IN THE, HMM. AND THEY GOT RID OF MANUFACTURED HOME DEAL. SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, ? UH, NO, IT'S, SCROLL UP PLEASE. NO, IT'S NOT PART OF TODAY'S, UH, YEAH, IT'S A GENERAL RESIDENTIAL. OH NO, IT'S NOT PART OF TODAY'S FORMER ZONING DISTRICT. MANUFACTURED HOME DISTRICT. IT FALLS IN GENERAL RESIDENTIAL GR RIGHT. SO MANUFACTURED HOME PARK, UH, I BELIEVE IN THAT DISTRICT IS PERMITTED WITH A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. I CAN DOUBLE CHECK. MM-HMM . AND, AND SO THAT HAS TO GO THROUGH COUNCIL, RIGHT? SO HAS TO GO THROUGH, COUNCIL HAS SOME USE STANDARDS. OKAY. SLIDE RIGHT THERE. IF YOU LOOK TO THE RIGHT, THERE'S A DESCRIPTION. EACH ONE OF THOSE, THEY'RE ALMOST DEAD DOWN. SO R AND E IS RURAL AND ESTATE, CERTAINLY ONE MANUFACTURER. HOMES AT THE BOTTOM. DIFFERENT. THEY'RE SAYING RR AND DOSS OUGHT CONSERVATION. THERE OUGHT TO BE AN OVERLAP BETWEEN COMMERCIAL AND NEIGHBORHOODS. RESIDENTIAL. WHY PUT COMMERCIAL BETWEEN A RESIDENTIAL AREA? YELLOW ONE, ONE. SOUND LIKE IT WAS BEFORE. MIC ON HERE. I HEARD YOU GENERAL RE I CAN'T DO THIS HERE. ALL NIGHT [00:35:04] GUN. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? I'M, I'M STILL DWELLING ON WHAT BILL JUST SAID. AND HE SAID, WHY WOULD WE WANT TO HAVE A COMMERCIAL MIXED IN WITH RESIDENTIAL? AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT, OKAY, ON THE WEST SIDE OF TOWN, USED TO BE A LOT OF OPEN SPACE IN FRONT OF SUBDIVISIONS. LIKE THE ONE BRUCE AND I LIVE IN BIO CREST, THAT WAS ALL OPEN SPACE. AND THEN SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, 15, 20 YEARS AGO, THEY CAME IN AND BUILT SOME STRIP CENTERS IN THERE. THAT'S WHERE, UM, GOS AND ALL THEM. YEAH. GOS. I'M TRYING, I WAS TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, ALL, ALL OF THAT. AND THEN NOW THEY'VE, THEY'VE BUILT SOME OTHER STUFF THERE. SO THAT, I DON'T KNOW HOW THINGS ARE ZONED. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU DIVIDE A SUBDIVISION AND THERE'S A LINE IN FRONT OF IT WHERE THAT GREEN SPACE USED TO BE OR THAT AREA THAT WAS JUST TREES AND GRASS. IF THAT WAS CONSIDERED COMMERCIAL, BECAUSE NOW IT IS COMMERCIAL AND IT BUTTS RIGHT UP TO RESIDENTIAL, WHICH HAS BEEN THERE FOR 40 YEARS OR MORE. I WILL SAY, I MEAN WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION IN DEPTH WHEN THERE WAS A CONVERSATION ABOUT J'S CAR WASH AND BASICALLY IT WAS KIND OF A RESIGNED THAT BASICALLY ANYTHING ALONG FIVE 17 HIGHWAY 3, 6 46, YOU PRETTY MUCH HAS ALWAYS BEEN A COMMERCIAL ZONE ALONG THE MAIN THOROUGHFARES. AND THERE WAS ALWAYS A SETBACK INTO THE SUBDIVISIONS WHEN THEY DID THEIR ORIGINAL PLATTING. UNDERSTANDING THAT WHILE YOUR HOUSE IS RIGHT HERE AND FIVE SEVENTEENS HERE, THIS WINDOW OF SPACE RIGHT HERE IS GONNA BE COMMERCIAL. THAT MAKES SENSE. AND IT, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY. AND WE HAD TO ARGUE THAT IN DEPTH. 'CAUSE PEOPLE DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, THEY WANTED DOG PARKS. THEY WERE, THEY WANTED MORE HOUSES BUILT RIGHT ON FIVE 17. I WAS LIKE, THAT'S NOT PRACTICAL. IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. I THINK THE MAIN THING, PHILLIP, THAT YOU PROBABLY ARE INTERESTED IN IS THAT THEY DON'T PLOT ONE IN THE MIDDLE OF A DEAL. RIGHT. YEAH, I AGREE WITH THAT. YEAH. YEAH, I AGREE. THE ALONG THE MAIN THOROUGHFARES PRODUCT BEING A COMMERCIAL IS CORRECT THAT, UH, THIS OTHER ZONE ALLOWS THEM TO PUT SMALL COMMERCIAL IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREA. AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHY I THINK DIVIDING THESE TWO YELLOWS, THEY SHOULD BE CONSOLIDATED ONE. THAT SEEMS TO BE THE ONLY DIFFERENCE, THE MAIN DIFFERENCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DESCRIPTION OF THOSE TWO ZONES. SO WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU SAY THE COMMERCIAL IN A ZONE, IS IT, WHICH ZONE ARE YOU REFERRING TO? THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION. YEAH, NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION. YOU ALLOW NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, I GUESS NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL WOULD BE WHAT I WAS JUST REFERENCING ABOUT THE LITTLE STRIP CENTERS, LIKE GEO'S AND THE MEXICAN FOOD RESTAURANT AND THE OTHER, THE DONUT SHOP AND THERE'S THE, YEAH, I, I WOULD SAY THAT PROBABLY, AND THEY'RE ALL ALONG MAJOR THOROUGHFARES, RIGHT? WHERE WE'RE RUNNING INTO PROBABLY REAL QUESTIONS IS ALONG SAY DEETS, THAT'S WHERE THINGS GET COMPLICATED. 'CAUSE THERE IS A GROCERY STORE RIGHT THERE KIND OF IN THE DEETS NEXT TO AN APARTMENT COMPLEX. MM-HMM . I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT'S STILL OPEN, BUT IT WAS THERE FOREVER. IT'S, IT'S NOT OPEN. SO YEAH, THE, BUT YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO KEEP, UH, BUT IT'S STILL, IN MY OPINION, SHOULD BE ZONED THAT THAT SHOULD BE A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY. IT IT WAS, IT STILL IS. SOMEBODY COULD REOPEN IT IF THEY WANTED TO. AND IT'S ALSO LIKE ONE BLOCK BLOCK BACK AWAY FROM THE DEALERSHIPS. SO YEAH. SO WHAT WE'D LIKE TO DO IS PREVENT SOMEBODY FROM OPENING A CAR REPAIR SHOP IN HIS GARAGE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. SO THAT ONE ALWAYS FELL INTO THE, UH, IN THE COMMERCIAL QUESTIONS WHERE THERE WAS DIFFERENT, UH, LIGHT INDUSTRY VERSUS GENERAL COMMERCIAL WHERE CUT AND DRIED, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T BRING IN COMMERCIAL INTO A RESIDENTIALLY, UH, ZONED LOCATION. BUT YOU CAN COME IN AND ASK FOR A SUP. BUT DOESN'T THIS ALLOW THAT? I DON'T KNOW WHAT THESE NEW ONES DO. THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICT, IT, THE COMMERCIAL INTENSITY THAT IT ALLOWS ARE, ARE VERY RESIDENTIAL TYPE USES A BED AND BREAKFAST, A GOLF COURSE, UM, UTILITIES. BUT THOSE ARE ALLOWED IN EVERY DISTRICT. MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, GOVERNMENT FACILITIES, EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES, PARKS, COMMUNITY FACILITIES. THERE, THERE'S NO INTENSE COMMERCIAL USE ALLOWED IN THAT, THAT NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICT. BUT THE REASON I, I WOULD KIND OF AGREE WITH PHIL ON WHY WOULD WE EVEN HAVE THAT? BECAUSE EVEN WITH ALL OF THOSE THAT ARE VERY JUSTIFIED AND, AND VERY CLEAR, EVERY ONE OF 'EM SHOULD BE AN SUP TO SOME DEGREE. YOU DON'T JUST RANDOMLY [00:40:01] AGREE THAT, YOU KNOW, HEY, WE DECIDED TO PUT A PARK IN THERE MM-HMM . UNFORTUNATELY IT HAPPENS TO BE A TATTOO PARK. WAIT A MINUTE, WHAT? SO I MEAN, MOST OF THEM ARE TO A DEGREE, A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. THE SOLID BLACK CIRCLE IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT THAT HAS TO GO TO COUNCIL. AND THESE, THE ONE THAT IS A HALF FILLED CIRCLE IS A LIMITED USE PERMIT THAT HAS THESE SET LIMITED USE STANDARDS. AND THEY CAN BE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY AS LONG AS THEY MEET THESE LIMITED USE STANDARDS. SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIMITED USE AND SUP? UH, THE APPROVAL AUTHORITY, I MEAN, SO WE DON'T HAVE SUVS ANYMORE. WE HAVE LIMITED USE PERMITS AND A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS WHAT IS CLOSE, MOST CLOSELY RELATED TO THE SUP BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE APPROVED BY COUNSEL. SO WE HAVE A TOOL THAT WE'VE JUST TOSSED OUT OF THE TOOLBOX. WE DON'T USE IT ANYMORE. IT IT IS THE SAME THING. DIFFERENT NAME. YEAH. THAT THIS IS THE SAME EXACT THING. BUT WE'RE WE'RE SAYING THAT YOU HAVE A ZONING DEVICE, WHICH IS AN ACTUAL ZONE THAT BASICALLY THE ENTIRE PURPOSE OF THAT IS ZONE IS YOU SHALL HAVE AN SUP, I'M GONNA USE MY OLD LANGUAGE, SORRY, LIMITED USE, WHATEVER, BUT IT'S STILL AN SUP. YOU CAN'T BUILD ANYTHING IN THAT AREA WITHOUT AN SUP, CORRECT? NO, THAT IS NOT CORRECT. ANYTHING COMMERCIAL. SO COME ON. THAT'S RIGHT. RIGHT. IN THE, IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S JUST RESIDENTIAL UP UNTIL THAT POINT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICT. CORRECT. ALL IT DOES IS GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE LEVERAGE IF SOMEBODY DOES DECIDE THAT THEY WANT TO ENTERTAIN IT. BUT WHETHER THEY REALIZE THEY COULD ENTERTAIN IT OR NOT, IT'S STILL THE SAME PROCESS. ARE YOU PICKING UP WHAT I'M LAYING DOWN ON THAT? NOT EXACTLY. OKAY. WE HAVE A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. OKAY. IT'S ALL ZONED RESIDENTIAL RIGHT NOW, WHETHER YOU CALL IT THIS, WHAT, WHAT IS IT? NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION. NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION. THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM BETWEEN NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION AND RESIDENTIAL. OKAY. IF IT'S, IF YOU CALL IT NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION, THAT MEANS I THINK I CAN ENTERTAIN PUTTING A, A, A BUILDING A, A BUSINESS IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. BUT THEN I'VE GOTTA APPROACH STAFF AND I GOTTA APPROACH COUNCIL TO GET LIMITED USE PERMIT. OKAY. BUT IF THERE IS NO NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION AND IT'S JUST ZONED NEIGHBORHOOD, GENERAL RESIDENTIAL AND I WANNA PUT A BILLING THERE, I HAVE TO APPROACH STAFF AND COUNCIL TO GET A LIMITED USE PERMIT. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE OTHER THAN IT GIVES SOMEBODY A LITTLE MORE MOTIVATION THAT IT MIGHT BE BETTER ENTERTAINED. IS THAT THE WHOLE PURPOSE? BUT ARE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A LIMITED USE PERMIT AND A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT? IS THAT WHAT YOU I'M LEMME GO BACK TO SUP BECAUSE I KEEP SCREWING UP WHAT THOSE TERMS MEAN. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THEY'RE ALL SUVS SPECIFIC USE PERMITS IS WHAT WE'VE CALLED 'EM FOR 20 YEARS. RIGHT. OKAY. WHETHER IT'S RESIDENTIAL, WE CAN WALK INTO A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD AND SAY, I WANT TO PUT A A HAIR SALON IN HERE. YOU CAN DO THAT. YOU HAVE TO COME TO STAFF, YOU HAVE TO FILL OUT AN SUP FORM, YOU HAVE TO PUT THE NOTICES OUT, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THE PROCESSES. AND IF EVERYBODY AGREES TO IT AND COUNSEL SIGNS OFF ON IT, I CAN PUT A HAIR SALON IN THE MIDDLE OF A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. NOW IF WE SLAP A, A NEW TITLE ON IT, I'M, I'M GETTING TO THE POINT THAT I FEEL LIKE THAT'S NO VALUE ADDED. IT'S JUST MORE, MORE FLUFFING STUFF ON IT. I DON'T SEE THE VALUE IN IT. I AREN'T, THERE'S LIKE CERTAIN AREAS THAT ARE DISTINCTLY COVETED RESIDENTIAL DON'T DO ANYTHING TO THE, THEY'RE JUST RESIDENTIAL. BUT IF THEY'RE FORCED , IF THEY'RE A LONG A A, I KNOW WE'RE PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE, BUT STILL, IF THEY'RE ALONG A STREET THAT MAKES SENSE THAT IT'S A THOROUGHFARE, THAT THEN IT HAS A NEIGHBORHOOD CON THEN IT CAN HA HAVE THE POTENTIAL OF A, UM, SMALL BUSINESS. BUT THERE'S DEFINITELY SOME AREAS THAT, THAT THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE OR SHOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE. I WOULD A HUNDRED PERCENT AGREE WITH YOU RIGHT UP UNTIL NOT POSSIBLE TODAY OR NOT POSSIBLE IN 20 YEARS. AND AT THE END THE DAY IT'S STILL THE SAME. WELL THEN THEY'LL DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN. I MEAN, WE'RE, YOU STILL GOTTA GO THROUGH THE SUP TO WHETHER THEY TRIED IT TODAY AND IT FAILED OR THEY CAME BACK IN 20 YEARS AND IT PASSED. WELL WHAT IF THERE'S NO AVAILABILITY OF THAT IN CERTAIN AREAS? CERTAIN AREAS ARE RESIDENTIAL PERIOD. MM-HMM . I MEAN, THERE'S NO PO AREN'T AREN'T, AREN'T THERE AREAS THAT THERE WOULD BE NO POSSIBILITY OF HAVING SMALL BUSINESSES IN THE MIDDLE OF THEM? NO. WELL, NONE. AND THE REASON I SAY THAT IS I COULD GO IN THE MIDDLE OF SHERWOOD FOREST, BEAUTIFUL NEIGHBORHOOD. NOBODY WANTS A BUSINESS IN THE MIDDLE OF SHOREWOOD FOREST. I KNOW THIS. BUT IF ME AND MY WIFE WANTED TO OPEN UP A, A HAIR SALON OUT OF MY GARAGE THAT'S ON THE SIDE OF MY PROPERTY, AND THE WHOLE [00:45:01] NEIGHBORHOOD, BY THE WAY USES THIS, THEY ALL LOVE MY WIFE. EVERYTHING'S WONDERFUL IN THE MIDDLE OF SHERWOOD FOREST, I COULD COME TO COUNCIL, I COULD COME TO TRAVIS AND PUT IN AN SUP REQUEST IN THE MIDDLE OF A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. AND NOW I STILL GOTTA GO THROUGH 87 HOOPS. LET ME GO BACK TO GOALS. DOES THAT GO ALONG WITH ANY GOAL THAT WE HAVE? SUVS? DON'T NOT, I'M NOT TALKING TO SUVS. I'M TALKING YEAH. OKAY. NEVERMIND. THAT'S FINE. I MEAN, WE DON'T, AGAIN, WE'RE WAITING. I THINK THAT THE FACT THAT IT HAS TO GO BEFORE COUNCIL, UH, WHEN YOU MAKE A CHANGE LIKE THAT IS, IS ENOUGH PROTECTION, YOU KNOW, TO JUST CONSOLIDATE THOSE TWO. YEAH. SEE, 'CAUSE SOME CASES LIKE, UH, WE APPROVED THE NURSING HOME WHERE WE HAD TO IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA NOT TOO LONG AGO. MM-HMM . FEDERAL LAW SAYS YOU HAVE TO, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU SAY IN THESE, IN THESE ZONING THINGS. RIGHT. SO, UM, MOST OF ALL, LIKE YOU SAY, IT HAS TO GO BEFORE COUNCIL. I'M AGREEING WITH EVERYTHING. IT'S JUST GETS TO A POINT WHERE WE START DICING THINGS DOWN TO A POINT THAT YOU, YOU GET SO MANY RULES ON TOP OF RULES AND EXPLANATIONS. AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, I WOULD RATHER SIMPLIFY IT AND JUST UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF AREAS IN OUR CITY THAT BOTTOM LINE, YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU WANT AS LONG AS YOU GO BEFORE COUNCIL AND YOU GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. THERE ISN'T A SINGLE THING. THERE'S NOT ONE IOTA OF ZONING THAT'S ON THOSE MAPS RIGHT NOW THAT CAN'T BE VIOLATED. IF A PERSON WANTED TO, BY VIRTUE OF SUBMITTING AN SUP AND GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS NOW GOD HELP 'EM. IF IT'S GONNA PASS IT, IT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT A, WE EXPERIENCED THAT LAST WEEK. YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE AREN'T HAPPY ABOUT SOMETHING, THEY'RE VERY VOCAL. BUT YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WHAT IF EVERYBODY'S IN FAVOR OF IT? WELL, LO AND BEHOLD, NOW YOU GOT A HAIR SALON IN THE MIDDLE OF SHERWOOD FOREST AND IT'S LEGIT AND THERE'S A TON OF RULES ASSOCIATED THAT GET TACKED INTO THE SUP AND IT BECOMES A SPECIFIC USE FOR THAT SPECIFIC EVENT. IT'S NOT ALLOWED TO BE DONE FOR ANYMORE. IT DOESN'T TRANSFER TO THE NEXT FAMILY. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A ROCK SOLID. WE GO BACK TO ZERO. BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING I FEEL LIKE WE CAN CUT BACK ON A LOT OF THESE DESCRIPTORS. I THINK THAT'S OVERKILL. OKAY. CAN, THERE'S NO DONE ONE AND DONE DEAL. SO I UNDERSTAND. CAN WE THEN AGREE TO CONSOLIDATE THE GENERAL RESIDENTIAL WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION, MAKE ALL THOSE YELLOW ONE SHADE OF YELLOW. CAN WE AGREE TO THAT? I I THINK YOU'D HAVE TO ADD THE, UH, VERBIAGE OF GRANDFATHERING IN THE OLDER NEIGHBORHOODS INTO THE OLD, OLD NEIGHBORHOOD. WELL, THEY WOULD JUST FALL IN GENERAL RESIDENTIAL, WHICH THEY ALREADY ARE. WELL, THE WHAT WHAT KIND OF PROTECTION ARE YOU LOOKING FOR? WELL, THE, THE TWO DESCRIPTORS ARE, UH, ONE IS NEW CONSTRUCTION. ONE'S OLD CONSTRUCTION. CORRECT. SET THAT FOR, UH, SO, SO WHEN I SAY THAT IT'S THAT ZONING DISTRICT FITS INTO NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE EXISTING, UH, BUT THE STANDARDS ARE GONNA BE FOR NEW DEVELOPMENTS. SO IF YOU, THEY CALL IT INFILL, YOU HAVE A STREET THAT THAT'S BUILT OUT. BUT SAY THERE'S TWO OR THREE LOTS THAT ARE VACANT AND, AND NOT DEVELOPED, UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICT IS DESIGNED TO HELP THAT NEW DEVELOPMENT OF ONE INFILL LOT FIT IN WITH THE CHARACTER OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, SO SAY, SAY YOU HAVE A STREET THAT'S BEEN BUILT IN 1965 AND EVERY HOUSE WAS 50 FEET FROM THE STREET. THEIR, THEIR FRONT SETBACK IS 50 FEET. IF WE HAD THE GENERAL RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT WAS THE PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS FOR ALL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES. UH, THAT DISTRICT HAS A 25 FOOT SETBACK. SO NOW IF SOMEONE COMES TO ME AND SAYS, HEY, I WANNA DEVELOP THIS LOT. MY NEIGHBORHOOD WAS BUILT IN 1965, BUT THERE'S NOTHING ON THIS PROPERTY, I WOULD HAVE TO TELL THEM, WELL, I UNDERSTAND ALL THE OTHER HOUSES ON YOUR STREET ARE 50 FEET FROM THE STREET, BUT MY STANDARDS WOULD REQUIRE YOU TO PUT IT 25 FEET FROM THE STREET. AND SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT FROM THE PLANNING SIDE OF THINGS DOES NOT FIT WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. RIGHT. AND SO, AND I UNDERSTAND WHERE WE CAN GET TO, DOESN'T THAT FALL IN THIS A SINGLE ONE-OFF SITUATION AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN PUT WORDING IN THERE TO COVER A THOUSAND SCENARIOS. SO THE WAY THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICT HAS THOSE STANDARDS AS THEY HAVE IT AS THE AVERAGE OF THE BLOCK FACE AND THE BLOCK FACE IS DEFINED AS, UM, YOU KNOW, ONE SIDE OF THE STREET BETWEEN INTERSECTING STREETS. SO IF THAT'S 10 LOTS, IF THAT'S 20 LOTS OR WHATEVER, OKAY. UH, WE WOULD RESEARCH THE PLAT AND AND SEE WHAT THE, THE PLATTED LOTS ON THAT BLOCK. MM-HMM . DIMENSIONALLY ARE AND THAT'S WHAT THE STANDARDS FOR THAT ONE NEW INFILL LOT WOULD BE. THAT THAT'S PERFECT. THAT'S GOOD. BUT DOESN'T THAT EXAMPLE HAVE TO COME BEFORE PLANNING AND ZONING FOR CITY COUNCIL? NO SIR. NO SIR. NO. THEY DEAL WITH THAT. SO IN LINE WITH WHAT YOU JUST SAID, TRAVIS AND I, A THOUSAND PERCENT, AND I AM ABSOLUTELY IN FAVOR OF GIVING YOU GUYS AS MUCH LATITUDE AS WE POSSIBLY CAN. MM-HMM . I THINK THAT'S A FANTASTIC LINE. I THINK I'M STILL IN FAVOR OF MERGING 'EM TOGETHER AND [00:50:01] MAKE SURE THAT ONE CARRIES OVER. JUST BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MERGING DOESN'T MEAN THROW THAT ONE INTO THE TRASH CAN. IF THERE'S INTELLIGENT COMMENTS IN THERE THAT, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, I'M ALWAYS GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF MAKING THIS EASIER FOR CITIZENS MM-HMM . THE, THE MORE THE RULES THAT MAKE SENSE, I'M GOOD WITH. BUT THE ONES THAT ARE RIDICULOUS, YOU JUST NAILED IT. IF WE GOT A RULE THAT SAYS IN A NEIGHBORHOOD YOU CAN'T DO IT THE SAME WAY THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS. WELL THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF RIDICULOUS. AND YOU NEED TO HAVE THE LATITUDE TO BE ABLE TO USE COMMON SENSE ON SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. TOTALLY. TOTALLY. AND, AND THIS IS WHAT'S ALLOWED IN, IN THIS DISTRICT. SO IT'S TO BE, UH, UH, UH, IT'S CHALLENGING TO THINK OF HOW I WOULD MERGE THOSE TWO ZONING DISTRICTS AND KEEP ALL THESE STANDARDS FOR BOTH DISTRICTS. UH, 'CAUSE LIKE I SAID, THIS ONE HAS, YOU KNOW, SET LOT WIDTH, LOT SIZE BUILDING COVERAGE, SET SETBACKS ON GENERAL RESIDENTIAL. IT ALLOWS FOR DUPLEXES AND, AND CORRECT. AND, YOU KNOW, PATIO HOMES. SO THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO. WHEREAS IN THE, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION, THAT'S NOT ALLOW FOR, WELL HOW IS DUPLEXES NOT IN, UH, MULTI-FAMILY OR HIGH DENSITY? THE, UH, IT'S NOT A SINGLE FAMILY HOME DUPLEXES AND, AND, AND PATIOS OR, OR NOT CONSIDERED MULTIFAMILY. MULTIFAMILY STARTS AT FOUR FOUR LOTS. MM-HMM. WHO SAYS BY DEFINITION, WHOSE DEFINITION IS IT THE DEFINITION OF THAT THAT'S BUILDING DDCS OR THE MUNI CODE OR TEXAS REAL ESTATE CONTRACTS OR FROM ONE TO FOUR UHHUH . SO AFTER FOUR IT'S MULTIFAMILY DEPARTMENTS. OH, OKAY. SO IT'S A TEXAS REAL ESTATE DEFINITION. OKAY, THANK YOU. BUT MY POINT BEING IS KEEP IN MIND WHAT WE'RE ALL DOING HERE. I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT. AND ANYBODY ON THIS COUNCIL IS VERY WELCOME TO DISAGREE WITH ME AND THAT WOULD BE THE DETERMINATION. BUT MY TAKE ON A GENERAL RESIDENTIAL IS SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. BUT THAT HE'S JUST TOLD YOU THAT IT'S TEXAS, NOT US. NO, THAT'S, THAT'S A TEXAS REALTY. YEAH, BUT IT'S NOT RELATIVE TO OUR, NOT RELATIVE TO OUR ZONING. IT'S NOT A LAW ON THE ZONING FOR US TO CALL IT THAT. BUT WE WANNA BE OUTSIDE OF WHAT THE WE'RE, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT THAT FAR OUT. YOU'D BE SURPRISED TO FIND MOST CITIES ARE NOT ADDRESSING IT THAT WAY. AND I SAY THAT HALFWAY TONGUE IN CHEEK. I ONLY KNOW ABOUT THREE CITIES THAT I'VE HAD TO DEAL WITH RELATIVE TO REALTY. BUT I THINK WHAT TRAVIS IS SAYING THAT WOULD MAKE HIS THE STAFF JOB VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE THERE'S TWO SEPARATE ARDS THAT NEW BUILD AND, AND OLDER ESTABLISHED. AND I MEAN WE, WE RESPECT THAT IN THIS. UH, I THAT'S I THINK YOU AND I ARE ON THE SAME POINT THERE, DEBORAH. AS FAR YEAH. BUT YOU'RE SAYING MERGING TOGETHER, HE'S SAYING THAT IT'S GONNA CAUSE MORE PROBLEMS? NO, IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE LESS FLEXIBLE. I THINK WHAT IT WOULD BE LESS FLEXIBLE. IT WOULD BE HARD TO MAKE, TO KEEP THE CHARACTERISTIC OF NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICT AND THE, AND THE CHARACTERISTICS OF GENERAL CON CON RESIDENTIAL IN ONE DISTRICT, GENERAL CONSERV, GENERAL RESIDENTIAL HAS A SET OF RULES. CORRECT. YOU'RE TO FOLLOW THOSE RULES. NOW YOU TAKE THE ONE LINE OR THE ONE PARAGRAPH THAT CAME OUT OF CONSERVATION THAT I SEE THAT HAS VALUE IS PUTTING IT IN THERE. THAT BASICALLY GIVES YOU, UH, ABILITY TO ADJUST RELATIVE TO THE ORIGINAL STATURE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND AGAIN, THIS IS MM-HMM . MY, MY TAKE ON IT IS SIMPLIFICATION AND GIVING YOU MORE AUTHORITY TO MAKE THE INTELLIGENT DECISIONS WITHOUT THE NEED. BECAUSE I MEAN, IF WE MESS AROUND AND WE, WE DON'T MERGE 'EM TOGETHER AND THEN WE HAVE GENERAL RESIDENTIAL IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT IN MOST NEIGHBORHOODS I THINK ARE GONNA FALL IN THAT CATEGORY. YOU KNOW, IF WE HAVE ONE, IN FACT, A PERFECT EXAMPLE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, JOHN UP THE STREET, THE GUY'S GOT A BIG LOT NEXT DOOR TO HIS OWN HOUSE. HE OWNS IT. IF HE SELLS THAT AND SOMEBODY DECIDES TO BUILD A HOUSE ON THERE, THEN THAT PERSON, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT GONNA BE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION. THERE'S NO REASON IT WOULD BE, YES, IT IS AN ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOOD. IT SURELY WOULD BE. THAT'S WHAT HE IS SAYING. ALL EMPTY LOTS WILL FALL UNDER THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION. IF IT'S AN OLD, IF SO, I, YOU KNOW, I'M ALL FOR SIMPLIFYING AS YOU SAY. NO PROBLEM. BUT THERE'S SPECIFIC REASONS FOR THE DIFFERENCE IN THESE TWO. AND YOU LOOK AT NEIGHBORHOOD CON CONSERVATION, IT MEANS OLDER ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOODS. MM-HMM . WHICH YOU JUST DESCRIBED. AND SO THE LOT WITHIN THERE WOULD COME UNDER THE STANDARDS THAT, UM, THAT TRAVIS HAD JUST INDICATED IT, THEY'D GIVE UH, MORE SET. THEY'D HAVE TO FOLLOW THE SETBACKS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, AND THEN THE GENERAL RESERV, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE RENAME IT. THAT'S [00:55:01] MIGHT BE THE PROBLEM. THE GENERAL RESIDENTIAL, THE NEWER BUILD, THE NEWER, YOU KNOW, UH, AND SO THE STANDARDS ARE DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT. RIGHT. I ASK YOU A QUESTION ON THAT DEBORAH. YEAH. SO IF I'M UNDERSTANDING RIGHT, YEAH. BASICALLY, AND I'M GONNA USE OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AS A PERFECT EXAMPLE. YEAH. OKAY. AN ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S BUILT IN THE SEVENTIES, EIGHTIES. YES. PRETTY NICE. PRETTY WELL ESTABLISHED. WE PROBABLY HAVE TWO, MAYBE THREE EMPTY LOTS IN THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD. OKAY. BY VIRTUE OF THERE HAVING TO BE TWO SEPARATE DESCRIPTORS, WE WOULD HAVE TO BE VERY COGNIZANT OF PRETTY MUCH EVERY SINGLE EMPTY LOT IN THE CITY. BECAUSE THOSE LOTS WOULD NEED TO HAVE, BE ZONED JUST FOR THAT. THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S GONNA BE RESIDENTIAL. RIGHT. BRUCE'S NEIGHBORHOOD. SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOODS WOULD FALL UNDER NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION. IS THAT CORRECT? WHICH NEIGHBORHOOD? SO IT'S GONNA BE, SORRY, LOOK, YOU WANNA LOOK AT HIS NEIGHBORHOOD, RIGHT? BRUCE'S NEIGHBORHOOD? YEP. YEAH, RIGHT THERE. YEP. YEAH, RIGHT THERE ON, SO IT'S ALL NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION, 38 11, ALL NEIGHBORHOOD CON. ALL 6 0 6. YEAH. YEAH. THAT, THAT IS ALL PLATTED RIGHT NOW IS ONE. BUT HE COULD HAVE IT RE PLATTED 'CAUSE THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER LOT. MM-HMM . TIED TO HIS PROPERTY, NOTHING'S BUILT THERE. RIGHT. SO IF HE WERE TO COME IN FOR A REPL, THE STANDARDS THAT I WOULD LOOK AT FOR THAT ZONING DISTRICT WOULD BE RIGHT HERE. SO HE WOULD, HE, WE WOULD TAKE THE AREA OF ALL THE PLOTTED LOTS ON THAT, ON THAT STREET AND TAKE THAT AVERAGE. AND THAT'S WHAT HE WOULD BE PERMITTED TO SPLIT THAT LOT INTO. NOW THOSE RULES WOULD BE RELATIVE TO NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, CON CONSERVATION. RIGHT? RIGHT. CORRECT. BUT NOW GO BACK TO THE, THE IMAGE NEXT SIR. SO THIS ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD HERE IS GONNA BE GENERAL RESIDENTIAL, RIGHT? NO, IT'S CONSERVATION. NO, THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD. YES. IT'S CONSERV, RIGHT? NO GENERAL CONSERVATION. IT'S GENERAL CONSERVATION NEIGHBORHOOD. LOOK AT THE COLOR LIGHT YELLOW ONE, IF YOU ZOOM OUT MM-HMM . THE EXTREME LIGHT YELLOW ONE IS GENERAL RESIDENTIAL. SO LIKE THIS RIGHT HERE, GENERAL RESIDENTIAL, NOT GENERAL CONSERVATIVE. AND SO A GOOD EXAMPLE RIGHT HERE, THIS IS ALL, UH, ZONED AS GENERAL RESIDENTIAL. AND IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THIS AREA, CANAAN ROAD, TOTALLY UNDEVELOPED. VERY, VERY WOODED. I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU'RE AT WHERE, OKAY, THERE'S, THIS IS FIVE 17, UH, THIS IS 6 46. AND SO THIS IS CANAAN ROAD WHERE LIKE POWERFIELD SERVICES IS YEAH. THAT, THAT'S A STRANGE AREA THERE, BUT YEAH. BUT CURRENTLY ZONED AS UH, GENERAL RESIDENTIAL. OKAY. FORGET MY IGNORANCE HERE. THE BRIGHT YELLOW IS GENERAL RESIDENTIAL? NO. OR THE LIGHT YELLOW? NO, THE LIGHT YELLOW IS LIGHT YELLOW IS GENERAL RESIDENTIAL. OKAY. AND YOU'RE CALLING THE DARK YELLOW AS THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION. ON THE LEFT THERE'S A, THAT SHOWS YOU BRIGHT YELLOW IS IN SEA. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. LIGHTER YELLOW GR AND THE BROWN, I CAN SEE IT. YOU, IT TELLS YOU ALL THE ZONINGS ON THE LEFT SIDE. OKAY. YOU, YOU KNOW, UH, TRAVIS, WHAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL IS A CHANGE OF THE NAME GENERAL RESIDENTIAL. AND NOW I KNOW THAT GOES WITH, KIND OF GOES THE OPPOSITES, THE BRIEFING, BUT IT'S CONFUSING BECAUSE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IT'S MOSTLY NEW BUILD. OKAY. OKAY. SO, UH, MAYBE RESIDENTIAL OPPORTUNITY OR , I DON'T KNOW, SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT, IT, IT IS THROWING US OFF. SO IT MUST BE THROWING OTHER PEOPLE OFF NEW RESIDENTIAL. IT'LL BE OLD AT SOME POINT. HUH? WHAT WAS YOUR SUGGESTION? NEW RESIDENTIAL. OKAY. MAYBE. WELL, I MEAN TECHNICALLY IF YOU CAN'T CALL IT NEW, IF YOU TAKE AN AREA THAT IS GENERAL RESIDENCE, I THINK I'M ACTUALLY GETTING TO UNDERSTAND THIS NOW, I'M A LITTLE BIT OFF. BUT IF YOU TAKE A GENERAL RESIDENTIAL AREA THAT'S NOT DEVELOPED, BUT IT'S STILL ZONED GENERAL RESIDENTIAL AND THEY COME IN, IN FACT THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE. AS THEY PUT IN ALL THOSE SUBDIVISIONS BACK IN THERE, IS IT THE INTENT THAT AFTER THIS ENTIRE AREA IS BUILT OUT, THAT THE ZONING OF IT WILL CHANGE FROM, UH, NC TO GR AND I GOT THAT BACKWARDS. EXCUSE ME, GR TO NC. I, I PROBABLY WOULDN'T SAY THAT IS THE INTENT. UH, BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY EVERYTHING THAT'S GONNA BE BUILT THERE IS GONNA CONFORM TO THE, THE EXISTING ZONING DISTRICT, THE GENERAL RESIDE RESIDENTIAL, UNLESS THEY APPLY FOR A PLAN. RIGHT. UNLESS IT'S A PLAN DEVELOPMENT OR, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. OR, OR THEY WANT TO DO A MORE DENSE DEVELOPMENT THAN WHAT IS ALLOWED IN. AND GENERAL RESIDE WANTS TO GO FOR A STRAIGHT ZONING. ALL THAT AREA THERE IS PROBABLY GONNA FALL IN PLAN DEVELOPMENT EVENTUALLY ANYWAY. YEAH. BUT THAT'S, THAT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE FOR TODAY. WELL YOU JUST USED A NICE TERM, WHY DON'T WE CALL THAT PLAN DEVELOPMENT? WELL IT HAS TO BE INITIATED. YEAH. OH, . YEAH. THEY HAVE TO REQUEST IT. SOMETHING BESIDES GENERAL RESIDENCE AND HONESTLY SCREW, I AGREE WITH WHAT THEY'RE SAYING RIGHT HERE AS FAR AS THAT FALLING IN THE CATEGORY, GENERAL RESIDENTIAL. BUT YEAH, EVENTUALLY SOMEBODY'S GONNA [01:00:01] COME IN HERE AND PUT IN A REQUEST AND IT'S GONNA BECOME A PLAN DEVELOPMENT AT THAT POINT. NO DOUBT. AND THAT'S THE TRIGGER MEANING, RIGHT? YEAH. AN APPLICANT HAS TO APPLY FOR A PLAN DEVELOPMENT. 'CAUSE THAT WAS MY NEXT THING IS AT WHAT POINT DOES THIS KIND OF RESET TO WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? I GOT YOU THE PURPLE ONE ON 6 46 ALREADY, YOU CAN SEE, RIGHT? SO THIS ONE IS, IS KIND OF IN THE WORKS RIGHT NOW. IT'S GONNA BE MULTIFAMILY AND SOME RETAIL ON FIVE 17. UH, AND IT'S A PLAN DEVELOPMENT THAT I THINK GOT APPROVED IN 2022 OR MAYBE LATE 2021. SO I'M GONNA, WE SEEN THE INITIAL FLIGHT, APOLOGIZE A LITTLE BIT EARLIER, RIGHT? LAST SAME ONE. MM-HMM . I HAD THESE BACKWARDS IN MY HEAD BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT GENERAL RESIDENTIAL IS BASICALLY NEW. MM-HMM . UH, NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION IS BASICALLY ALSO ABOUT 70, 80% OF OUR CITY IS GONNA FALL IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION CATEGORY. I WAS UNDER, UH, UNDERSTANDING, 'CAUSE AGAIN, GOING BACK TO OUR ORIGINAL, WHICH WAS CONVENTIONAL RESIDENTIAL, 70, 80% OF THE CITY WAS CONVENTIONAL RESIDENTIAL BACK IN THE DAY, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS CLOSER TO GENERAL RESIDENTIAL. RIGHT. SO THIS PART OF OUR MAP WILL ACTUALLY BREAK DOWN THESE ZONING DISTRICTS BY PERCENTAGE. YEAH. SO WHERE'S NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION? 38%. MM-HMM . OKAY. SO AS FAR AS RESIDENTIAL GOES THAT IS CERTAINLY THE BIGGEST RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT. YEAH. OKAY. UH, AGAIN, BACKWARD THINKING ON MY PART, BUT I UNDERSTAND NOW THE CONCEPT, IF THESE ARE ALL REFERRED TO AS NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION, WHICH IN MY HEAD IS STILL CONVENTIONAL RESIDENTIAL, LET IT GO. THERE'S, YEAH. WELL, IT'S IN LINE. YOU REALLY HAVE TO LET GO OF ALL THE OLD ZONING STUFF. THANK YOU SO MUCH. ABSORB THE NEW 'CAUSE THE OLD IS GONE. WELL, AND THE EMPHASIS IS ON THE FACT OF EXACTLY OLD VERSUS NEW. AND THAT IS ANY NEW ONE, WHICH IS THE YELLOW SHOWING OUT THERE BY, UH, CEMETERY ROAD OUT THAT WAY. OKAY. THAT IS GONNA HAVE MODERN ZONING, MODERN, UH, REQUIREMENTS. ALL THE PLATTING, EVERYTHING IS GONNA BE PER CURRENT CODES. THAT WAS MY CONCERN THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CITY, WHICH IS OFFICIALLY NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION, WHERE WE HAVE LIMITATIONS ON WHAT THEY CAN AND CANNOT DO. AND ALSO THAT, UH, WHOEVER DOES DO NEW BUILDING, IT HAS TO BE BASICALLY IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE ORIGINAL DESIGN OF THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD IN SOME FORM OR FASHION. CORRECT. THAT MAKES SENSE. ALL RIGHT. I'M ACTUALLY NOT OPPOSED AFTER AN HOUR OF TALKING ABOUT THIS STUFF ENTIRELY TOO MUCH. MY APOLOGIES. UH, I'M OKAY WITH THAT STANDUP. PHIL, DO YOU HAVE A THOUGHT ON THAT? I THINK I HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING. OKAY, GREAT. AND, AND AGAIN, MY APOLOGIES, BUT, UH, WE GOTTA UNDERSTAND IT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE. I MEAN, IF IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO CONSOLIDATE THEM. 'CAUSE WHEN I LOOK AT THIS SHEET HERE, THERE'S ONLY ONE DIFFERENCE DOWN AT THE BOTTOM, BUT, UM, THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION ALLOWS FOR NEIGHBORHOOD, COMMERCIAL DISTRICT AND THE GENERAL RESIDENTIAL. UM, WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST SAY IT THAT WAY? TRAVIS ? I, I CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE IN, BUT I DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND WHY THEY CAN'T BE THE VERBIAGE THAT MAKES IT NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION CAN BE PUT INTO GENERAL RESIDENTIAL AS WELL, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WE, WE CAN, IT'S, IT'S CERTAINLY POSSIBLE. I, I GUESS WHAT I'M THINKING OF IS, IS I WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE LANGUAGE THAT WOULD TRIGGER SOMETHING TO ALLOW THAT. RIGHT. SO HOW DO I DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN WHETHER YOU HAVE TO GO BY THIS STANDARD OR THIS STANDARD IF, IF YOU'RE ZONING DISTRICT IS THE SAME IN LINE WITH WHAT DEBORAH JUST SAID. I'M, AND I'M, I'M SIMPLIFYING. IT'S NEVER THAT EASY. I KNOW, BUT INSTEAD OF CONSERVATION, WHICH THAT WORD JUST BRINGS UP DIFFERENT THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD. ESTABLISHED AT THE END OF THE DAY, THESE ARE ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOODS THAT'S ESTABLISHED RESIDENTIAL. HMM. LIKE ESTABLISHED RESIDENTIAL. THAT'S A GOOD IDEA. YEAH. BECAUSE I MEAN, IT IS, IT'S NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE ESTABLISHED HAVE THEIR OWN RULES. MM-HMM . UH, THE, THE GENERAL RESIDENTIAL DAMN NEAR NEW CONSTRUCTION, RESIDENTIAL LACK OF A BETTER ONE. I KNOW THAT'S NOT, WE JUST DISCUSSED IT, WHICH DOVETAILS TO WHAT I WAS SAYING AS FAR AS LIKE, ONCE IT GETS ACTUALLY IDENTIFIED AS BUILT OUT, YOU KNOW, IN 10 YEARS THERE'S NEW RULES, YOU KNOW, AND THEN IT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE REZONED AT THAT POINT TO ESTABLISH NEIGHBORHOOD MOVE ON FROM THERE. BUT THAT'S NOT TODAY. ALRIGHT, WELL NOW WE GOT ONE DOWN. WE'RE CRUSHING IT. WE'LL GO THAT FAR. SO DO WE HAVE TO HAVE A MOTION TO CHANGE THAT, THAT [01:05:01] NAME OF THAT? WELL, IT'S JUST A RECOMMENDATION. IT'S NOT RECOMMENDATIONS. WE, WE, YEAH. WE CAN TOUCH BASE ON THAT AT THE VERY END. I'LL, I'LL KIND OF KEEP A TRACK AND WE CAN DO THE SUMMARY AND THEN, BECAUSE BECAUSE THE PROCESS AFTER THIS IS I WILL HAVE TO DRAFT, UH, THE ORDINANCE DOCUMENTS AND THEN OF COURSE I BRING IT TO Y'ALL OFFICIALLY FIRST FOR RECOMMENDATION AND THEN WE GO TO SUPER THANK YOU. YEAH. YEAH. BECAUSE IT'S TECHNICALLY A WORKSHOP , RIGHT? YEAH. TECHNICALLY A WORKSHOP DIRECTIONS, FORMAL ACTIONS. I UNDERSTAND. THERE'S NO FORMAL WE'RE BACK IN. YEAH. AND, AND THAT'S, I MEAN, THAT'S THE WAY WE GET IT, YOU KNOW? YEAH. SO WE'RE ONTO URBAN TRANSITION, ALL THE URBAN TRANSITION. YEAH. WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF THAT? LET'S GO TO THAT RIGHT HERE. OH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR. THAT'S THE ONE I THINK EVERYBODY'S GOT A LITTLE BEEF WITH , RIGHT? SO BY DEFINITION, ACCOMMODATES AN AREA IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE DOWNTOWN AS AN INTENDED TO PROVIDE AN AREA THAT TRANSITIONS FROM HIGHER DENSITY SLASH INTENSITY USES IN THE DOWNTOWN TO A BUDDING LESS DENSE OR INTENSE AREAS. UH, AND SO MY RESEARCH ON THIS, YOU KNOW, EVEN ALL THE WAY BACK THROUGH THE, THE 2045 COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UH, IT WAS ALWAYS REPRESENTED THAT, UH, CONVENTIONAL DETACHED HOMES WERE NOT GONNA BE PERMITTED IN THIS DISTRICT. I, I CAN'T HEAR YOU, TRAVIS. I'M SORRY. I SAID E FROM ALL MY RESEARCH, UH, IN THIS DISTRICT, EVEN FROM THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, IT WAS ALWAYS REPRESENTED THAT CONVENTIONAL DETACHED HOMES WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED IN THIS DISTRICT. CONVENTIONAL DETACHED HOMES, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. WE HAVE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, BUT LIKE ATTACHED, YOU KNOW, TOWN LIKE MOTHER-IN-LAW UNITS AND SUCH LIKE THAT ON SOMEBODY'S PROPERTY. NO, NO, NOT MOTHER. NO, NO MOTHER, JUST SINGLE FAMILY HOMES WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED IN THAT AREA. OH, YEAH. CRIMINI, I'M SORRY. YEAH. IT WAS REPRESENTED THAT WAY ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. IT'S REPRESENTED THAT WAY CURRENTLY IN ORDINANCE. UH, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED TO THE LAST MEETING ABOUT ALLOWING THAT IN SOME FASHION, UH, GOING FORWARD, UH, WHICH MAKES SENSE TO ME. UH, BUT I, I JUST WANTED TO GIVE THAT BACKGROUND THAT, THAT THAT IS HOW IT'S BEEN REPRESENTED. SO I WANNA GO BACK TO SOMETHING PHIL SAID A LONG TIME AGO ON THIS. IS THAT, PARDON ME. AND IT GOES BACK TO WHY I WANTED TO START WITH GOALS IS, UM, DO WE WANT DICKINSON TO BE HIGH DENSITY? IS THAT OUR, ONE OF OUR GOALS TO, AND I THINK YOU SAID THIS A LONG TIME AGO IN A MEETING THAT KIND OF INTIMATED THAT THAT'S REALLY NOT WHAT WE SEE. OUR CITY IS BEING SOMETHING TO GO TOWARD. WE REMEMBER WHO MADE THIS IS NOT US. UH, AND SO IN THE URBAN TRANSITION, THE REASON WE'VE HAD SO MUCH TROUBLE WITH IT IS PEOPLE DON'T WANT IT. THEY DON'T WANT THE HIGH DENSITY. SO I THINK YOU'RE A HUNDRED PERCENT RIGHT. AND THEN WE BROUGHT IT UP IN THE JOINT MEETING ALSO. AND AGAIN, LOOKING AT ALL THE COUNCIL WAITING FOR THEM TO CORRECT US WAS, AT NO POINT HAVE I EVER UNDERSTOOD IN THE CITY OF DICKINSON IN THE 26 YEARS I'VE BEEN HERE, THAT I UNDERSTOOD THAT THE INTENT WAS TRY TO GET MAXIMUM DENSITY IN THE CITY. UH, I'M NOT SAYING I WANT US TO EVER GO BACKWARDS, THAT'S NOT THE INTENT, BUT IT WAS NEVER, LET'S SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE WE CAN SHOEHORN INTO THE SAME SQUARE SPACE. UH, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IN THE CITY, IF THIS WAS PUT ON A REFERENDUM FOR JUST A POLE, I THINK THAT WOULD BE SHOT DOWN HORRIBLY BAD. AND AGAIN, IT'S COUNCILS TO MAKE THAT FINAL DECISION. BUT AS FAR AS THIS COMMISSION SPEAKING ONLY FOR MYSELF, I'M VERY, VERY AGAINST IT. AND WITH THAT BEING SAID, TRAVIS, UH, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THIS URBAN TRANSITION, SHORT OF MAXIMUM DENSITY, AND IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, WHERE ALL OF THE, THE LOTS THAT WERE BEING ALLOCATED TO THIS WERE BASICALLY ALL ALONG FIVE 17, WHICH I STILL GO WEST DOWNTOWN. NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE. AND THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT UP THAT I LOOKED AT A PIECE OF PROPERTY YOU HAD AND, AND HAD A, A BIT OF, UM, BIT ON THE BAYOU TOO. AND IT WAS, UH, LABELED, UH, URBAN TRANSITION. AND SO DO WE REALLY WANT, I MEAN, JUST SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, I DON'T WANT URBAN TRANSITION ON THE BAYOU. YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T. AND, AND YET IT IS, RIGHT? YEAH. SO THAT THE IDEA OF URBAN TRANSITION IS A BUFFER BETWEEN YOUR DOWNTOWN COMMERCIAL, YOUR DOWNTOWN, AND YOUR RESIDENTIAL. AND YOU KIND OF HAVE A LITTLE MORE, YOU'RE GOING FROM HIGH DENSITY TO MID DENSITY TO LOW DENSITY. THE PROBLEM THAT HAPPENED WITH THE ZONING MAP IS THAT URBAN TRANSITION ENDED UP TAKING UP THE WHOLE AREA BEHIND ZIGLAR THAT WENT ALL THE WAY TO THE BAYOU, AND THEN THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BAYOU BECAME RESIDENTIAL. HEY ROBERT, YOU WANNA COME UP AND TALK FOR A MINUTE? YEAH, YEAH. SORRY FOR JUST PUTTING HIM OUT THAT, [01:10:01] YEAH, NO, TOTALLY FINE. THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY REALLY GOT TO ME WHEN IT CAME. I'VE GOTTEN TO KNOW THE ZONING QUITE A BIT AND, AND I LOVE THE ZONING MAP TOOL AND I SEE THE IDEAS, BUT IT, WHAT HAPPENED I THINK WAS THAT THE URBAN TRANSITION GOT TOO BIG IN SOME OF THOSE AREAS, AND IT COULD BE COMPRESSED SOME. AND I THINK AN EASY SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM IS ADDING SINGLE FAMILY HOMES WOULD ELIMINATE ALL THE PROBLEMS THAT PEOPLE HAVE. SO IN LINE WITH WHAT YOU JUST SAID THOUGH, IF YOU TAKE OUT THAT BIG CAVEAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT URBAN TRANSITION DOES NOT ALLOW FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, THEN WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION? CAN YOU PULL UP THE TABLE? I'M SORRY, I MISSED THE FIRST PART OF THAT TABLE. THAT QUESTION HE'S ASKING THE DIFFERENCE IF YOU ADD SINGLE FAMILY TO URBAN TRANSITION, HOW DOES THAT DIFFER FROM OTHERS? AND THAT'S WHERE YOU GO TO THE PERMITTED USE OR THE CONSOLIDATED USE TABLE. I CAN'T SEE IT TOO WELL. BUT YOU GO DOWN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION AND YOU GO DOWN THE URBAN TRANSITION, AND IF YOU ADD A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, YOU'LL STILL SEE THERE'S SOME DIFFERENCES IN THERE. RIGHT? SO WE PLAN TO ADD THE CONVENT, DETACH, CONVENTIONAL DETACHED AND PATIO HOME, BOTH THE URBAN TRANSITION. SO IF YOU LOOK FURTHER DOWN THE TABLE, URBAN TRANSITION ALLOWS LIKE MULTIPLEX TOWN HOME OR APARTMENTS. UH, WHEREAS THESE OTHER RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS DO NOT ALLOW THAT DENT OF A DEVELOPMENT. UH, HOWEVER IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE MIXED USE AND DOWNTOWN DOES ALSO, UH, PERMIT THOSE TYPES OF DEVELOPMENTS. BUT I STILL THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT AREA. 'CAUSE I DON'T WANT, I DON'T WANT MULTI STUFF ON THE BAYOU. I MEAN, THAT'S MY, WELL, YOU GOT, YOU DO HAVE IT ON THE OTHER SIDE WITH THE TOWN HOME COMMUNITY, THE CONDO, UM, CASA RIO CONDOS, AND IT'S WORKED PRETTY WELL AS BAYOU FRONT. MM-HMM . UM, IT'S JUST THAT THERE'S A LOT OF SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ON THE NORTHERN SIDE OF THE BAYOU THAT ARE NOW URBAN TRANSITION. AND IT WAS KIND OF LIKE THEY LAID OVER A NEW ZONE AND SAID, YOU'RE SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOUSE RIGHT NOW. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WANT YOU TO BE IN THE FUTURE. SO IF YOUR HOUSE GETS DESTROYED BY STORM AND YOU BUILD BACK, YOU'RE BUILDING BACK TO NEW ZONING. YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR HOUSE THERE ANYMORE. AND SO THAT, THAT'S SOME OF THE TRICKINESS THAT'S OCCURRED IN THIS URBAN TRANSITION GOING THE, WELL ANSWER THIS QUESTION AGAIN. I I'M PROBABLY OFF ON LEFT FIELD AGAIN. WHAT IS THE NEED FOR URBAN TRANSITION? SERIOUSLY? I MEAN, OTHER THAN JUST WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND, UH, OUR BASIC RESIDENTIAL? WELL, AGAIN, IF YOU GO BACK TO THE TABLE. YEAH. I'M LOOKING AND YOU GO DOWN THAT COLUMN ON UT SO THE URBAN TRANSITIONS ALLOWING FOR, UM, IS IT, IT'S TOWN, TOWN HOMES, MULTIFAMILY. IT'S APARTMENTS, TOWN HOMES AND MULTIPLEX. CORRECT. YEAH. OKAY. SO IT'S ALLOWING FOR A LITTLE MORE DENSITY. RIGHT. SO YOU FROM, YOU DO NOT HAVE A HIGH DENSITY ZONING OPTION HERE. THE, THE OTHER TWO ZONING DISTRICTS THAT ALLOW A HIGHER DENSITY ARE THE MIXED USE IN DOWNTOWN DISTRICTS. BUT AS FAR AS THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS, THE U URBAN TRANSITION IS THE MOST DENSE. OKAY. UH, AND, AND IT'S PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, IMPORTANT THAT WHILE DICKINSON MAY NOT OVERALL, YOU KNOW, WANT TO MORE DENSITY, UH, IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE CITY, YOU KNOW, IN EXTENT, UH, IN AREAS THAT WE DO AGREE, UH, THAT WE NEED OR THAT DENSITY IS APPROPRIATE. YOU KNOW, IT, IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE, WE NEED DEVELOPMENT, UH, FOR THE CITY, ESSENTIALLY TO SURVIVE LONG TERM. AND I'M INCLINED TO AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT. BUT I THINK IN LINE, AND FORGIVE ME, YOU GOTTA SAY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS ON HERE. I'M ROBERT BRAGG WITH BAYOU REALTORS AND, AND ADDRESS HOME 16. UH, OR I'M GIVING YOU MY OFFICE. IT'S 1721 BEACON POINT LANE IN DICKINSON. COOL. I'M IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION GROUP, , SO NOT OH YEAH. MOST OF US ARE. SO I'M NOT SAYING THAT URBAN TRAN, I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE NEED TO STICK A KNIFE IN IT, BUT IS IT A FAIR TO SAY THAT WHILE IT DOES HAVE A VALUE, IT NEEDS TO BE REARED BACK SIGNIFICANTLY? IN IN WHAT WAY? IN THE AREA BEHIND ZIGLAR'S? MY THOUGHT WOULD BE THE WHOLE AREA BACK HERE ADD DETACHED AS AN OPTION TO URBAN TRANSITION. BUT THEN YOU COULD ALSO PULL BACK THAT ZONING FROM THE BAYOU AND MAKE THE SPACE AND LAWN THE BAYOU MORE OF ONE OF THE THREE RESIDENTIAL ZONES. WELL, THAT, THAT ENTIRE SPACE THERE BEHIND ZIGLAR, THOSE ARE ALL TRYING TO GO BACK IN MY HEAD COMPLETELY. BUT I, I BELIEVE THAT'S 98% SINGLE FAMILY HOMES BACK THERE. AND I THINK YOU COULD PUSH BACK TO FIVE 17, A LOT OF THE DOWNTOWN ZONING AND SAY IT AGAIN. A LOT OF THAT AREA ALSO SHIFTED TO DOWNTOWN ZONING. MM-HMM . AND I THINK THAT DOWNTOWN PUSHED TOO FAR SOUTH AS WELL. 'CAUSE YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF SINGLE FAMILY HOMES IN THAT DOWNTOWN AREA RIGHT NOW. THAT'S A FULL RESIDENTIAL [01:15:01] AREA DOWN THERE. THAT'S ALL THAT IS, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE DOWNTOWN, REALLY, AND WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT . SO TO ME, THE DOWNTOWN, WE DOING THAT FOR 20 YEARS. YEAH. LET ME LOOK OVER HERE. THE DOWN THE DOWNTOWN DRONE SHOULD PROBABLY COME A COUPLE OF BLOCKS SOUTH AND THE URBAN TRANSITION FROM THE BAYOU SHOULD MOVE FURTHER NORTH. AND ALL THOSE HOUSES THAT ARE ALONG THE BAYOU, UH, WHERE PLUM IN LAKE. YEAH. ALL OF THAT I KNOW I SHOULD HAVE STAYED IS SOME KIND OF RESIDENTIAL REALLY. YEAH. STREET. SO GENERAL RESIDENTIAL. YEAH. AND, AND IT'S STILL, I'M STILL GOING BACK TO, AND, AND I HATE TO, TO PIGEONHOLE US, BUT EVEN ALL THAT STUFF ALONG THERE. PULL, PULL IT UP JUST A LITTLE BIT, JUST A LITTLE BIT OF THE BAYOU HERE. HE'S WANTING YOU TO ZOOM IN ON THE BAYOU SIDE? NO, JUST, JUST PULL IT UP. I'M WANTING TO SEE ZOOM. ABOUT A HALF AN INCH OF THE BAYOU. THERE YOU GO. PERFECT. I GOTCHA. WE GOT THE, UH, THE DO THE TOWN HOMES ON THE OTHER SIDE, WHICH BY THE WAY ARE BEAUTIFUL. I, I LOVE THEM. AND I'M LOOKING AT ALL THIS AREA RIGHT HERE. THERE'S, THERE'S A FEW OLDER HOUSES OR A FEW EMPTY LOTS. AND I STILL PUT THIS ALL IN MY HEAD AS JUST NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION. EVEN WITH THE EMPTY LOTS, GIVING THE OPTION, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY DECIDED THEY WANNA DO SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION, THEY, THEY PUT IN FOR AN SUP, BUT WE DON'T HAVE SUVS ANYMORE. . SO WE GOTTA LET THAT GO. WELL, YOU HAVE TWO OPTIONS AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE SHADED BY THE HALF CIRCLE OF THE FULL DARK CIRCLE. WELL, AND AGAIN, LET YOU KNOW WHAT YOU COULD TRY TO GET. IT'S SAME SOUP, DIFFERENT CAN IS WHAT IT REALLY IS. I GET IT. BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW I CAN DO THIS AND I DON'T HAVE TO GO SEEK APPROVAL BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY PERMITTED. BECAUSE WHEN I'M HELPING CLIENTS LOOK AT PROPERTY TO PURCHASE, I SHOW 'EM. YOU REALLY WANNA LOOK FOR WHERE THE, THE, THE UNSHADED FULL CIRCLE IS BECAUSE YOU KNOW, YOU COULD DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT TO DO PENDING AN ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW AND MAKING SURE YOU'RE MEETING ALL THE REQUIREMENTS. IF YOU DO SOMETHING THAT'S IN THE HALF CIRCLE OR THE FULL DARK CIRCLE, WELL NOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO SEEK APPROVAL. YOU COULD BE DENIED. AND IF YOU BUY THE PROPERTY FIRST AND NOW YOU CAN'T, CAN'T BUILD WHAT YOU WANT. YEAH. SO I THINK HAVING THE OPTION FOR TWO COLUMNS FOR A RESIDENTIAL WHERE ONE TELLS YOU, YEAH, YOU COULD DO THIS, AND THE OTHER ONE SAYS YOU HAVE TO SEEK APPROVAL, IT HELPS PEOPLE UNDERSTAND BETTER MM-HMM . WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO. BUT ON THAT WHOLE AREA ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF I 17 BEHIND ZIGLARS, I THINK IT JUST KIND OF BECAME A, A MESS BECAUSE THERE'S PEOPLE THAT CURRENTLY HAVE RESIDENTIAL HOMES THAT ARE NOW URBAN TRANSITION. AND IF YOU WERE TO SAY, TODAY WE'RE GONNA WIPE OUT WHAT YOU HAVE AND PUT IN WHAT'S REQUIRED, EVERYBODY WOULD NO LONGER HAVE THEIR HOME ON THE BAYOU. OKAY. SO I DON'T THINK THAT ISN'T THE INTENTION THERE MUCH URBAN TRANSITION IS ON THE BAYOU. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, ALL THE GROUND, YOU KNOW, DO WE, BACK TO GOAL? DO WE REALLY WANT THAT? I MEAN, I DON'T, SO WELL LET, LET'S, UM, WE'RE KIND OF GOING DOWN A RABBIT HOLE A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S HUGE AND I CAN'T WAIT TO GET EVERYBODY'S INPUT ON IT. 'CAUSE I THINK THAT'S A VERY SENSITIVE POINT. BUT KIND OF GOING BACK TO THE, THE QUESTION OF THE URBAN TRANSITION. DO WE HAVE A NEED OR A WANT TO ADJUST? ANY, YOU WANT TO GET BACK TO THE, UH, CHART THE CIRCLES, WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN'T DO? I, I, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AS FAR AS LIKE, UH, BEING ABLE TO OFFER MULTI MULTIFAMILY PROPERTIES IN THERE. AND SO IT, IT DOES HAVE A VALUE. AND I, I THINK WE'RE VERY CLEAR IN CONSERVATION NEIGHBORHOODS AND EVEN GENERAL RESIDENTIAL, WE DON'T WANT MULTIFAMILIES IN THOSE MM-HMM . THOSE ARE JUST SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. BUT I THINK ON THE, I I, I'M IN AN AGREEMENT, I THINK, UH, CONVENTIONAL DETACHED HOMES SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN THERE. AND I THINK ONCE WE START GOING THROUGH THE MAP, I THINK WE'LL PROBABLY DIAL BACK AND ADJUST THAT THE SITES SIGNIFICANTLY. BUT FOR TODAY, RIGHT NOW, IS EVERYBODY IN AGREEMENT CONVERSATIONALLY THAT, UH, CONVENTIONAL DETACHED HOMES SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN URBAN TRANSITION ALSO? YES. YES. TRAVIS, AM I MISSING SOMETHING OBVIOUS? NO, UM, I DON'T DISAGREE. IT IS, YOU KNOW, TYPICAL FOR A ZONING DISTRICT TO ALLOW A LESS INTENSE USE. HOWEVER, IT'S, IT'S LESS COMMON TO SEE, IT'S MORE COMMON TO SEE A MORE INTENSE USE PROHIBITED IN A DISTRICT. BUT IT'S LESS COMMON TO SEE A LESS INTENSE USE, WHICH WOULD BE LIKE A DETACHED SINGLE FAMILY HOME. YEAH. AGREE. YES, MA'AM. OKAY. YEAH. HELP MY IGNORANCE HERE. PATIO HOME. SO THERE IS A DEFINITION FOR THAT. UH, IF YOU NOTICE, THIS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE. PATIO HOME. IT IS [01:20:01] PERMITTED WITH A LIMITED USE STANDARD. SO YOU GO TO THIS LINK RIGHT HERE AND IT BRINGS YOU TO WHAT THAT STANDARD IS. AND SO IT REQUIRES, UM, A SETBACK ON ONE SIDE SHALL BE A MINIMUM OF SIX FEET, AND THE OTHER SIDE IS ZERO FEET. SO YOU SEE THOSE OFTEN ON SMALLER LOTS WHERE YOU HAVE MAYBE A SIDE YARD. UM, THERE'S EVEN IN, UH, MY SISTER LIVES IN ONE NEAR, UH, IN KEA AND IT'S PARTIAL WATERFRONT COMMUNITY. AND SO HER BACKYARD DOESN'T HAVE A FENCE. IT HAS A NEIGHBOR'S WALL, AND THAT WALL HAS SOME GLASS BLOCK SO THE NEIGHBOR CAN'T REALLY SEE IN. AND THEN SHE'S, HER BACKYARD IS A ZERO LOT LINE, BASICALLY WHERE THAT HOUSE SITS ON THE PROPERTY LINE. SO THEY'RE SMALLER HOMES, THEY'RE THREE STORY. EVERYBODY KIND OF GETS A VIEW OUT OF THE WATER, HIGHLY PRICED. 'CAUSE THEY'RE CLOSER TO THE WATER, WHICH IS WHY DEVELOPERS LIKE TO PUT MORE HOUSES INTO IT. IT'S A GATED COMMUNITY. AND SO YOU GET HIGHER DENSITY IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THEY'RE STILL KIND OF LIKE YOUR DETACHED SINGLE FAMILY HOME, EXCEPT THEY'RE CALLED PATIO HOMES. BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE A BIG YARD ANYMORE. YOUR HOUSES ARE MAYBE 15 FEET FROM THE ROAD. YOU CAN BARELY FIT ONE CAR IN A DRIVEWAY. IN SOME CASES YOU CAN'T. SO, SO IT'S MORE ABOUT SETBACKS THAN CONSTRUCTION? YEAH. A LOT ABOUT SETBACKS. AND THEN YOUR, YOUR, UH, TYPICALLY YOU HAVE A HOUSE BUILT WITH A SIDE YARD, AND THEN THE OTHER HOUSE IS ON THE, ON THE LOT LINE WITH NO SETBACKS. CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE DESCRIPTORS? SO INSTEAD OF HAVING, YOU KNOW, TO DO A PLAN DEVELOPMENT FOR THIS, OR HAVING TO COME IN AND DO MULTIPLE VARIANCES, YOU KNOW, THIS PERSON WOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT PATIO HOME TYPE DEVELOPMENT, UH, BY, RIGHT. OH, YOU WANNA SEE THE USE TABLE? SORRY. YEAH. SO THE FULL CIRCLE MEANS YOU COULD DO IT. THE CITY CAN'T TELL YOU NO. TALKING ABOUT OPEN CIRCLE. THE, THE FULL OPEN CIRCLE. SORRY. THE UNSHADED. SO THE, THE, THE NON SHADED CIRCLE AND THEN THE HALF CIRCLE REQUIRES A KIND OF APPROVAL AND THE FULL SHADED CIRCLE REQUIRES AN APPROVAL. BUT THEY'RE DIFFERENT KIND OF APPROVALS ONE'S. YEAH. THE, THE LIMITED USE TO HALF CIRCLE IS ADMINISTRATIVE. SO I CAN HANDLE THAT. THEY COME IN AND TALK TO ME. WE HANDLE IT IN OFFICE AND THERE'S NO WAITING PERIOD. UH, BESIDES JUST REGULAR PERMIT REVIEW. THE, THE FULL CIRCLE IS WHAT HAS TO GO, UH, TO CITY COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL. AND THE DASH MEANS YOU CAN'T DO IT. IT'S NOT PERMITTED. CORRECT. WITHOUT AN FUP RIGHT HERE. NO UP WITHOUT TRYING TO CHANGE THE PERIOD. IT'S NOT ALLOWED. YEAH. NOT ALLOWED. YEAH. THERE'S NOT A SUP OPTION FOR USES THAT ARE PROHIBITED LIMITED USE. OKAY. AND THAT'S WHAT WHERE THEY HAVE TO COME FOR US AND TRY TO CHANGE THE THAT. RIGHT. SO IF THEY WANNA DO THAT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO A ZONING CHANGE. AND SO A ZONING CHANGE, UH, DOESN'T ALWAYS MAKE SENSE OR IT'S NOT ALWAYS ABLE TO BE SUPPORTED BY STAFF DUE TO, YOU KNOW, CONFLICTS WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OR STUFF LIKE THAT, OR SURROUNDING USES. UM, BUT THEY SO IN LINE WITH WHAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT, NOW THAT I, I KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT PATIO HOMES TO BE DANGEROUS, , UH, I'M, I'M OF THE MIND TO MAKE SURE THAT WE OFFER CONVENTIONAL DETACHED HOMES IN UT I'M QUESTIONING WHETHER PATIO HOMES SHOULD, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE THAT IS KIND OF SHOEHORNING IN POTENTIALLY A LOT OF HOUSES IN A SMALLER AREA. IS IT NOT? UH, THAT'S KIND OF THE IDEA IS THAT YOU'RE PUTTING MORE HOMES INTO AN AREA FASTER FOR SMALLER LOTS. SMALLER LOTS. TYPICALLY TWO. THEY'RE TWO THREE STORY TALL. AND A LOT OF THE IDEA IS EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE CLOSE TO THE WATER IN THAT ONE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO EVERYBODY KIND OF HAD SOMETHING THAT ALLOWED THEM A VIEW OF THE WATER AT SOME POINT. SOME OF THE HOMES WERE WATERFRONT AREA. SO THE AREA, THE TOWN HOMES THOUGH, THOSE DON'T FALL IN THAT. THEY'RE, WHAT'S A TOWN HOME? IS THAT A MULTI-FAMILY MULTI? THE TOWN HOMES ARE ON THEIR OWN LOTS, BUT THEY'RE ALL CONNECTED. MM-HMM . AND I THINK THEY'RE THREE KINDA LIKE ROW HOUSES SOMETIMES THEY'RE CALLED. I'M, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE, BECAUSE THOSE TOWN HOMES THAT ARE DOWN THERE ARE BEAUTIFUL. I LOVE 'EM. THEY, THEY'RE GREAT TO LOOK AT. I DON'T MIND 'EM BEING THERE FOR A MILLISECOND, BUT I'M LIKE, WHERE WOULD THEY FALL IN THIS TABLE IF SOMEBODY CAME AND SAID, HEY, I WANNA BUILD EIGHT TOWN HOMES ALL NEXT TO EACH OTHER. WOULD IT BE ALLOWED UNDER URBAN TRANSITION? YES. IT, IT WOULD. AND SO WHAT THEY WOULD DO IS, IS BY, BY WHAT DESCRIPTOR FOUR THAT MAXIMUM BEFORE THE THING ABOUT TOWN HOMES IS EVERY, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE COMBINED, THEY'RE SEPARATE. LOTS PRIVATELY OWNED. YEAH. SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY LOTS CURRENTLY THAT ARE EXACTLY TOWN HOME WIDTH TO WORK AS A TOWN HOME COMMUNITY. BUT IF A DEVELOPER BOUGHT, SO SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE TO REPL A LOT TO WORK FOR A TOWN HOME. SO IF A DEVELOPER CAME IN AND GO BACK TO THAT, THE CIRCLES AGAIN, IF A DEVELOPER BOUGHT TWO ACRES AND SAYS, HEY, I WANNA PUT SIX TOWN HOMES. I WANNA BASICALLY REPEAT THAT ENTIRE OPERATION. MM-HMM . WOULD THAT BE ALLOWED UNDER THIS URBAN TRANSITION BY THESE GOT A HALF CIRCLE THERE, [01:25:02] IS IT HAVE COME FOR REVIEW CORRECT. TOWN HOUSE. SO WE CAN GO TO LIMITED USE STANDARDS FOR THAT. IS THERE LIMITATIONS ON FRONT LOAD OF TOWNHOUSES OR PROHIBITED? SO IT IS REALLY JUST REFERENCING THE DESIGN OF THE LAYOUT. IS THERE A LIMITATION ON QUANTITY OF THEM? THERE IS NOT. OKAY. WELL YOU SAY DEAN ABOUT FOUR. THAT'S . OH YEAH. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO THEY COULD IF, 'CAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT POTENTIALLY PUTTING SOME URBAN TRANSITION DOWN TOWARD THE BAYOU ALSO. CORRECT? WELL, THAT'S OUR DISCUSS. IT'S CURRENTLY THERE. SO LET'S, LET'S, AND THAT, THAT'S WHERE I'M LIKE, HEY, THAT'S WHERE, LET'S GO BACK TO TABLING THAT. YEP. AND LET'S GET THE INFORMATION ON THESE, UH, DEALS. I, I COULD SHARE WHERE ONE OF THE DOWNTOWN ZONINGS IMPACTED ONE OF MY CLIENTS. 'CAUSE IT WAS RESIDENTIAL, BUT NOW IT'S DOWNTOWN. AND WE HAD SOMEBODY READY TO WRITE A CONTRACT FOR BUILDING A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, BUT THEN FOUND OUT IT WAS OFF THE TABLE AND MOVED ON. BUT WE DID HAVE AN UNDER CONTRACT RECENTLY AND SOMEBODY THAT WAS LOOKING AT IT FOR A LIVE WORK UNIT, WHICH IS ONE OF THE OPTIONS. BUT HE DECIDED AND OPTED AGAINST THAT 'CAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ONE OF THOSE YET. AND HE JUST DIDN'T WANT TO BE THE FIRST GUY. , HE DECIDED HE DIDN'T WANT TO BE THE GUINEA PIG. SO WE LOST HIM. OH. I THOUGHT WE, HE'S HE'S MOVED ON TO BUYING SOMETHING DIFFERENT. UH, BUT IT'S, UH, IT, IT'S A CHALLENGE FOR THAT AREA BEHIND ZIGLAR'S THAT WAS ALL RESIDENTIAL AND IS NOW DOWNTOWN PART OF THAT DOWNTOWN ZONING THAT I THINK COULD SHIFT BACK TO URBAN TRANSITION. AND WITH THE ALLOWANCE OF A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, IT'S ELIMINATED ALL THE PROBLEMS THEY'VE PROBABLY RUN INTO. SO WELL WITH THAT, LET'S GET TO THOSE DESCRIPTORS. 'CAUSE WE'RE NOT THERE YET. RIGHT. SO, BUT ON URBAN TRANSITION, ARE WE JUST, UH, EVERYBODY, THE ONLY, UH, ADJUSTMENT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS ADDING SINGLE FAMILY HOMES TO IT. DID YOU WANT PATIO HOME IN THERE? OR JUST THE SIGNAL RIGHT NOW? OR DETACHED IS WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING. AND THEN WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT IT. SO OUR, OUR ORIGINAL DISCUSSION INCLUDED THE PATIO HOMES, UH, ADDING IT. BUT WE COULD, WE COULD DEFINITELY PUT UH, YOU KNOW, ANY LIMITED USE OR CONDITIONAL, UH, STANDARDS ON THAT. WE COULD HAVE SOMEONE GO TO COUNCIL TO GET A PATIO HOME APPROVED IN URBAN TRANSITION. OR I THINK THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE GOOD. 'CAUSE I'M NOT OPPOSED TO IT. RIGHT. UP UNTIL IT'S SOME RIDICULOUS THING THAT WE GO, OH CRAP, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE MEANT. MM-HMM . AND IF WE PUT IT IN THERE, THAT DOES HAVE TO GET THE, WHATEVER THE HELL THE SUP IS NOW PATIO HOMES WORK REALLY WELL WITH OTHER PATIO HOMES. YEAH. IF YOU ONLY HAVE A SINGLE PATIO HOME DROPPING IN AND BUILDING ON A PROPERTY LINE THAT COULD AFFECT A NEIGHBOR BECAUSE SUDDENLY THEY'VE GOT SOMETHING ON THEIR PROPERTY LINE SET OF A FENCE. MM-HMM . MM-HMM . UM, BUT THEN AGAIN IT, IT ACTS AS A FENCE. 'CAUSE YOU DON'T TYPICALLY HAVE WINDOWS LOOKING OVER. SO AS LONG AS THE PATIO HOME DESCRIPTIONS THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, THAT HOME, THAT WALL THAT'S ON THE ZERO PROPERTY LINE CAN'T HAVE ANY, UH, WINDOWS OVERLOOKING THE NEIGHBOR. THAT COULD, THAT COULD WELL, BUILDING CODE REQUIRES THAT WALL TO BE FIRE RATED. OKAY. YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, COOL. SO WE'RE ADDING PATIO HOMES WITH A LIMITED USE PERMIT RIGHT? ON URBAN TRANSITION. YEAH. WHY? WELL, IT GIVES 'EM THE OPTION. THEY CAN DO IT WITH PERMISSION. THEY CAN PUT A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, NO QUESTION. HMM. THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH COUNCIL TO GET THAT PERMISSION. RIGHT. RIGHT. THE LIMITED USE PERMIT, IF IT JUST ADDED CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW, THEY DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ANY SORT OF APPROVAL. I CAN BE LIKE, RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT ALLOWED. PERIOD. WELL, I'M SAYING, BUT THERE IS A REASON FOR IT NOT TO BE ALLOWED. NOW WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IT, I GUESS IS THE ISSUE? WHAT WAS THE REASON? IT'S STILL IN THE CATEGORY OF A SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE, BUT IT WAS JUST ABOUT THE URBAN TRANSITION DIDN'T ALLOW ANY SINGLE FAMILY. OKAY. SO THAT WAS JUST THE ONLY REASON. OKAY. YES MA'AM. ALRIGHT, I'M ON. SO WE AGREED. YEP. THAT'S, IT CAN BE ADDED WITH, UH, WITH COUNCIL APPROVAL. YEP. OKAY, SO THAT'S CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. YES. OKAY. SO WE'RE DOWN TO AUTOCENTRIC COMMERCIAL THAT WE KIND OF ALL UNDERSTAND CAR LOTS, BASICALLY AT LEAST ONES WE'VE SEEN ARE CAR LOTS. YEAH. SO THERE'S NO DISCUSSION DOWNTOWN ? UH, YEAH. DOWNTOWN IS ONE THAT I'M, I'M NOT BIG DEAL. SURE. WE NEED TO GO ON THE YEAH, BUT DO YOU HAVE A SPECIAL BELOW THING ABOUT THIS? YEAH. UH OH YOU DO? OKAY. CAN THAT BE CONSOLIDATED WITH SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL? I MEAN, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AUTOCENTRIC AND SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL? LET'S LOOK INTO THAT. SO SMALL SCALE, UH, HERE'S THE PURPOSE OF THAT DISTRICT. IT'S HIS, WOW. [01:30:01] SORRY. LIMITED IMPACT IS THE MAJOR THING I'M LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW. AND THAT'S WHAT SMALL SCALE MEANS. LIMITED. I THINK THE AUTOCENTRIC IS PRIMARILY WHAT WE USED TO CALL THE INTERSTATE ZONE, WHICH IS BASICALLY ALONG I 45 WHERE YOU CAN HAVE BIG ASS, BIG SIGNS. EXCUSE ME. AUTOCENTRIC IS ALONG FIVE 17. AND THE REASON FOR AUTO IS YOU DRIVE TO IT, YOU DON'T WALK TO IT. YEAH. THE NAME IS IS NOT NECESSARILY RELATED TO THE USES, IT'S MORE RELATED TO THE ACCESSIBILITY. ACCESS. ACCESSIBILITY. YES SIR. BUT IS NOT I 45 ALSO IN AUTOCENTRIC. A LOT OF IT THERE'S ALSO AUTOCENTRIC ON HIGHWAY THREE, THERE'S HERE FIVE 17 MIXED. YEAH. YEAH. SO THE PURPOSE OF AUTOCENTRIC IS WHAT, HOW YOU GET THERE. YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN AUTO TO GET THERE. IT'S KIND OF A DUMB DEAL, ISN'T IT? WELL, , I DIDN'T SAY IT FOR A CHANGE. , THAT'S, I WAS JUST SAYING I'M SORRY, BUT I KNOW IF I'M NOT CONFUSED. WELL, YOU GOTTA START, YOU GOTTA THINK OF, IS THIS KEA, RIGHT? SO KEA IS IN AUTOCENTRIC BECAUSE YES, YOU HAVE TO TAKE A CAR TO GET THERE, BUT YOUR WHOLE PLAT YOU, YOU WALK EVERYWHERE. YOU WALK EVERYWHERE TO GET TO IT. SO THERE'S A DIFFERENCE. CERTAINLY. SO, NON CARRY , WE, WE ADDRESSED THIS A LONG TIME AGO AND IT WAS THE GENERAL COMMERCIAL AND THEN EVERYTHING ALONG I 45 FELL IN GENERAL COMMERCIAL ORIGINALLY. BUT THEN WE REALIZED THAT WAS NOT PRACTICAL BECAUSE I 45 HAD A LOT OF DIFFERENT RULES THAT BASICALLY GENERAL COMMERCIAL DID NOT ALLOW IE BIGGER SIGNS SO THAT WE DIDN'T WANT GIANT SIGNS ON HIGHWAY THREE OR ON FIVE 17. BUT YOU NEED BIG ONES ON ALONGSIDE 45. MM-HMM . AND SO THAT WAS THE MAIN REASON. THOSE WERE TWO WERE SEPARATED. NOW AUTOCENTRIC AND IF, IS THERE AN ACTUALLY AN INTERSTATE, OH THIS ISN'T IN, CAN YOU PUT THE LITTLE CIRCLE THING UP SO WE CAN SEE WHAT DOWNTOWN? I MEAN AUTOCENTRIC WHERE STRIP CENTER ON 45 TO AUTOCENTRIC. YEAH. DICKINSON PLAZA. UH, IT WASN'T THAT BEFORE, CORRECT? IT WAS MIXED USE. WHERE'S THAT? AUTOCENTRIC? SO AUTOCENTRIC IS HERE AND SO THERE'S, THERE'S NO RESIDENTIAL USES IN AUTOCENTRIC. OKAY. KEEP GOING. SMALL SCALE HAS, LEMME SEE THE REST WORK. THERE WE GO. OKAY. SO WE GET TO THE COMMERCIAL SIDE. COMMUNITY FACILITIES, LESS INTERESTING EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES. MEDICAL. OKAY. THE, HOLD ON. SO THE THINGS THAT ARE, THAT ARE BY RIGHT ARE MEDICAL MAN, COLE, ME, PARKS OPEN, UH, KEEP, IS THERE MORE UP, UM, MINOR UTILITY, WHAT WOULD THAT BE? THESE ARE LIKE TELECOMMUNICATION TOWERS. UH, THAT'S STRUCTURE AND STUFF LIKE THAT. WE CAN'T REALLY TELL 'EM NOW. SO THERE'S NOT A LOT THAT YOU CAN DO IN AN AUTOCENTRIC. SO THERE IS, WE'RE NOT TO THE FULL COMMERCIAL USES YET. AND FITNESS BARS, GAME ROOMS, GYMS, BUT HOLD ON, BANKS CHECK CASHING. NO. SO MO MO MOTELS, HOTELS YOU'RE SAYING TOO, RIGHT? NO, THEY ARE ALLOWED. NO, I KNOW, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. YEAH. YEAH. BUT NOT BEEN BREAKFAST SHORT TERMS. RIGHT. ALL PARKING STANDALONES, FOOD TRUCK COURT, RESTAURANTS, DRIVE-INS, SERVICES, LIQUOR STORES. WOW. SO THIS IS JUST, IT IT JUST, IT'S GENERAL COMMERCIAL. GENERAL COMMERCIAL. YEAH. YES. HUH. VERY, VERY SIMILAR. I WOULD AGREE IT ACTUALLY, WHY DO WE CALL IT THAT THEN? AUTOCENTRIC COMMERCIAL. BUT AGAIN, WE'RE GONNA FIND IN HERE THAT ALL, WHEN IT GETS INTO THE RULES, THERE'S LIMITA TON OF LIMITATIONS ON AUTOCENTRIC TALKING ABOUT WHAT KIND OF SIGNS YOU CAN HAVE AND ALL THAT. IS IT NOT, UH, THERE ARE A LOT OF LIMITED USE STANDARDS FOR DEVELOPMENTS IN THIS, IN THIS DISTRICT. YES. BUT THEY'RE MOSTLY SPECIFIC USE RELATED. UH, I CAN TELL YOU THE SIGNS, THE SIGNS IN AUTOCENTRIC ARE, THEY'RE PRICE SIMILAR TO INTERSTATE COMMERCIAL, WHAT WAS ALLOWED IN THAT. YEAH. I'M JUST SEEING AUTOCENTRIC, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, TO BE VERY, VERY COMPARABLE TO GENERAL COMMERCIAL. IT IS. AND UNTIL YOU GET, LIKE I SAID, ALONGSIDE 45, WHICH A LOT OF THE RULES HAVE TO BE ADJUSTED A LITTLE BIT. DOES EVERYBODY LIKE THE NAME AUTOCENTRIC COM COMMERCIAL? DOES THAT MEAN, I MEAN NO, BECAUSE WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GENERAL COMMERCIAL AND, AND AUTOCENTRIC? I I GREAT. YOU DRIVE THERE. I JUST, WHAT'S [01:35:01] THE DIFFERENCE? I JUST THINK THAT I DON'T WANNA CONFUSE PEOPLE AND I THINK THAT'S CONFUSING. SO WOULD IT, IF WE CHANGE IT TO GENERAL COMMERCIAL, WOULD THAT CAUSE A PROBLEM FOR YOU, TRAVIS? NOT NECESSARILY. OH, GOODIE. I LIKE THAT. . WHAT WAS HIS REPLY IN HERE? HE SAID, UH, IT WOULDN'T CAUSE HIM ANY PROBLEMS. YEAH. NOT NECESSARILY. EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS GENERAL COMMERCIAL AUTOCENTRIC. SO MY SUGGESTED, I GUESS WE JUST NEED TO ENSURE THAT THAT IS, THAT IS WHAT THAT DISTRICT SUPPORTS. RIGHT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. WELL THAT WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION TO CHANGE THAT NAME FOR, FORGIVE ME. IS THERE, I'M LOOKING AT OUR, UH, LIST UP THERE. IS THERE A GENERAL COMMERCIAL OR IS AUTOCENTRIC THE GENERAL COMMERCIAL? IT IS. OH, IT IS THE GENERAL COMMERCIAL. IS IT COMBINED? UH, INTERSTATE, COMMERCIAL AND GENERAL CO. YEAH. IF, IF YOU EVEN LOOK AT WHERE WE'RE, WE'RE AT OVER HERE, IT SAYS IT RIGHT HERE, WHICH IS, IT SOUNDS LIKE IT ADOPTED LIKE YOUR SIGN MEASURE APPROPRIATE FOR AREAS SHOWN ON A LAND USE PLAN MAP AS GENERAL COMMERCIAL. SO I SUGGEST LET'S CHANGE IT TO GENERAL COMMERCIAL. OKAY. I'M IN, I'M OKAY WITH THAT. SO GUYS OKAY WITH THAT? HELLO? TOMATO. TOMATO. YEAH. OKAY. WELL, YES, BUT NOW IT'S NOT CONFUSING AND I'M OKAY. I I'M GONNA MAKE A STATEMENT THAT I'M GONNA ASK EVERYBODY TO HELP ME FREAKING MAKE IT CLEAR AGAIN, I 45 IS IN MY OPINION, SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT THAN HIGHWAY THREE AND FIVE 17. AS FAR AS, UH, THE GENERAL COMMERCIAL REQUIREMENTS ASSOCIATED ALONGSIDE THERE. I MEAN, UH, LIKE SIGNAGE ALL THE WAY DOWN TO, TO SIGNAGE, TO LIGHTING. I MEAN, WE'VE GOT GAY PONTIAC. THERE HAS, IS IT PONTIAC STILL? OKAY, WHATEVER IT IS NOW. GMCG. YEAH. YEAH. WE HAVE A LOT OF RULES ABOUT PARKING AND, AND PLANTING AND ALL THAT STUFF. YOU KNOW, ARE THEY APPLICABLE ALONGSIDE I 45? I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT WE NEED A A, A GC LIGHT OR GC A OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OR EVEN INTERSTATE FOR THAT MATTER. WE, WE VERY SPECIFICALLY RECOGNIZED YEARS AGO THAT IT WAS DIFFERENT INTERSTATE WE CALLED. IT DIDN'T YEAH, WE, WE CREATED AN INTERSTATE ZONE. I THINK IT WAS IN 2015, 14 SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT. YEAH. AND IT, IT CREATED BY GOING WITH GENERAL COMMERCIAL. THERE WAS A MULTITUDE OF BUSINESSES ALONG THERE THAT HAD PUT LIMITATIONS ON THEM THAT THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH A LOT OF HOOPS TO, TO GET PAST. MOST OF 'EM WERE JUST COMMON SENSE. YEAH. STUFF LIKE THAT IS, IS PRETTY EASY FIX. SO WHAT I HAVE UP ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW IS, IS SUMMARY OF SIGN TYPES PERMITTED BY DISTRICT. UM, AND SO THIS IS SOMETHING I HAVE CONSIDERED. IN FACT, IT'S VERY EASY, IT'S VERY EASY TO ADD THESE TABLE NOTES ON, ON SOME OF THESE STANDARDS. SO SAY IF, IF WE WANTED TO ONLY ALLOW, UH, A POLL SIGN ON INTERSTATE 45, WE COULD ALLOW THAT SIGN IN THAT DISTRICT AND, AND PUT A TABLE NOTE ON THERE THAT THIS ONLY APPLIES TO PROPERTIES ZONE AUTOCENTRIC THAT ARE ADJACENT TO I 45. YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE EASY ADJUSTMENTS. OKAY. WONDERFUL. THAT WOULD BE EASIER TO DO THAN CREATING ANOTHER, UH, ZONING ZONING ZONING DISTRICT. OKAY. YES MA'AM. THAT, THAT'S PERFECT. IT'S AN IF OR AN OR. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE ADDRESSING IT IN SOME FORM OR FASHION. UNDERSTOOD. CAN WE MOVE ON TO DOWNTOWN? COME ON DOWNTOWN. IT IS. BY THE WAY, I TOLD MARJORIE SINCE SHE WAS, UH, CATERING SOMEBODY, SHE'S REQUIRED TO BRING US SOME FOOD. NO LIE. , SHE JUST ROLLED HER EYES AGAIN. DID SHE, DID SHE JUST ROLL HER EYES? ? WELL, I WON'T SAY WHAT SHE SAID OUT LOUD, BUT, UH, PROBABLY ALREADY HAVE, BUT, UH, ALRIGHT. SO THE, THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT, UH, IS ONE OF TWO DISTRICTS THAT REQUIRES, UH, THESE BUILDING DESIGN STANDARDS. SO JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND GOING THROUGH THIS ONE. SO LET, LET ME BACK UP REAL QUICK ON THE DOWNTOWN ONE, I CAN'T EVEN REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS CALLED, BUT WE HAD A DISTRICT ALONG HIGHWAY THREE AND FIVE 17 FOR YEARS. I THINK IT GOT REVERSED. DID IT NOT? WHAT WAS IT CALLED? OH, IT WAS AN OVERLAY DISTRICT, OVERLAY [01:40:01] DISTRICT KIND OF THING. IT, IT DID GET REVERSED. THAT WAS KIND OF A, A STATE LAW THAT CHANGED, THAT PROHIBITED YOU FROM REQUIRING CERTAIN BUILDING MATERIALS. MM-HMM . UH, AND SO YEAH. THAT, THAT ONE'S BEEN GONE FOR A WHILE. AND THIS ONE, UH, IS A BIT REVISED AND, AND DOESN'T NECESSARILY REQUIRE MATERIALS. UH, IT'S MORE, UH, DESIGN MM-HMM . OKAY. AND IT SEEMS LIKE, AND WE'LL GET TO IT IN A MINUTE, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THE OVERLAY DISTRICT FRICKING LAYOUT WAS WHAT I WOULD SAY THE DOWNTOWN AREA SHOULD HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED AS. SO THE, AS OPPOSED TO GOING INTO ALL THE SUBDIVISIONS BEHIND ZIGLARS PROBLEM WITH THE OVERLAY. I MEAN, IT HAD THE CONCEPT OF MAKING IT, TRYING TO MAKE IT DOWNTOWN, BUT GOT OVER ZEALOUS WITH REGARD TO BUILDING MATERIALS YES. TO MAKE, PUTTING TOO MAY MARY PROBLEMS IN PEOPLE'S WAY. SO UNFORTUNATELY, BUT THE CONCEPT WAS PROPER. I THINK, YOU KNOW, WELL, THE INTENT WAS YEAH. YEAH. THE INTENT. PARDON ME. BUT IT WAS DEFINITELY OVER OVERLY BURDENSOME. YEAH, THAT'S TRUE. UM, CAN WE JUMP TO THE, UH, I'M GONNA COME UP WITH A NAME FOR THAT THING. EVENTUALLY. THE, THE CIRCLES CONSOLIDATED USE TABLE IS WHAT SOLIDATED USE. I KNOW THAT ROLLS OFF THE TONGUE NICELY. . IT'S SO SMOOTH. SO SMOOTH. . I DON'T KNOW WHY I CAN'T REMEMBER THAT LITTLE CIRCLE. CIRCLE. I JUST, I JUST KEEP GOING TO THE CIRCLE PAGE. SO THE, THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT, UH, DOES ALLOW FOR SOME TYPES OF RESIDENTIAL. LIKE THESE LIVE WORK UNITS, UH, IS ALLOWED BY RIGHT, UH, MULTIPLEX TOWNHOUSE APARTMENT AND UPPER STORY RESIDENTIAL KIND OF THING. YOU KNOW, THE STRAIN IN GALVESTON TYPE DEVELOPMENT. SO LIVE WORK UNIT. DO YOU HAVE A DESCRIPTOR FOR THAT? I KNOW I HAVE SOMETHING IN MY HEAD, BUT, OKAY. THERE WE GO. HOLD ON. DO IT AGAIN. SO IT COMBINES A DWELLING UNIT WITH AN INTEGRATED WORKSPACE, AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE OCCUPIED BY, BOTH SPACES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE OCCUPIED BY ONE PERSON, PRIMARY RESIDENTIAL. OKAY. RIGHT. SO ESSENTIALLY IF YOU OWN A STORE BELOW AND YOU HAVE AN APARTMENT UPSTAIRS, YOU CAN LIVE THERE OR P EFFICIENCY IN THE BACK. AND SO WE HAVE A LIST OF USES THAT ARE PERMITTED IN, IN THAT TYPE OF LIVE WORK UNIT. AND THEY'RE ALL, YOU KNOW, PRETTY, UH, THERE'S NOT MUCH INTENSITY THERE. IT'S SMALL STUFF LIKE, YOU KNOW, GUN ASSEMBLY, RETAIL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO INDUSTRIAL USES LIKE THAT. I HAD SOMEONE WHO HAD ASKED ME ABOUT THAT RECENTLY. REALLY? YEAH. I SAID, I'M GUNSMITH. I WANNA LIVE UPSTAIRS AND I WANNA HAVE MY SHOP DOWNSTAIRS. I SAID, FAIR ENOUGH. SO COULD A, COULD IT BE A MECHANIC SHOP? NO, CAN'T HAVE A MECHANIC SHOP IN THAT AREA. OKAY. SO WHAT BESIDES GUNSMITH COULD IT , COULD JEWELER, PAWN SHOPS? UM, SEAMSTRESS. WELL, YEAH. KIND OF THE SMALL, ESSENTIALLY SMALL BUSINESS. OKAY. SO THIS IS LIKE, THIS IS THE LIMITED USE STANDARDS FOR A LIVE WORK UNIT. UH, SO IT HAS THESE BUILDINGS ON, IT'S LIMITED TO A MAX OF 3,500 SQUARE FEET FOR WHATEVER THE NON-RESIDENTIAL USE IS. THAT'S A BIG BUILDING. YEAH. AND THESE ARE THE USES. SO OFFICE, DAYCARE, MICRO FASHION'S. COOL. I MEAN, I THINK THAT'D BE COOL. YEAH. PRO MANUFACTURING. RIGHT. AND SO THAT WOULD KIND OF FIT INTO WHERE LIKE GUNSMITHING OR MAKING SMALL CRAFT STUFF LIKE THAT. TRAVIS, IF WE MAY, I THINK WE'VE BEEN GOING FOR AN HOUR AND 45 MINUTES. MM-HMM. IF WE COULD TAKE A 10 MINUTE BREAK, GREAT. IT'D BE APPRECIATED BY EVERYBODY. PERFECT. YOU, I THINK I CAN SPEAK FOR MYSELF THAT THE COFFEE'S CATCHING UP. YOU YEAH. UH, DID WE CLOSE OUT AUTOCENTRIC? DO WE HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS ON THAT? WE'RE GONNA, I THINK WE'RE ON DOWNTOWN. WE'RE ON DOWNTOWN. OKAY. WE'RE, WE'VE ROLLED OVER TO DOWNTOWN. WE WERE FIGURING OUT WHAT, REMEMBER WE WERE IN THE LITTLE CIRCLE AREA. WE'RE FIGURING OUT WHAT DOWNTOWN TRULY MEANT. OKAY. SO DOWNTOWN WE TALKED ABOUT THE, UH, DOWNTOWN MAINES LIVE WORK, MULTIPLEX, TOWN, HOMES, APARTMENTS. BECAUSE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE, UH, DUAL USES, RIGHT, RIGHT. THE ABILITY TO HAVE A GUN SHOP OR WHAT ALL THAT MM-HMM . YEAH. YEAH. THAT WAS THE, UH, LIVE IN LIVE WORK UNITS. YEP. YEP, YEP, YEP, YEP. AND THOSE ARE STRAIGHT UP ALOUD. AND THEN, UH, AQUARIUMS. OH, IT'S HARD TO DIFFERENTIATE THE COLORS BETWEEN DOWNTOWN AND MIXED USE. YEAH. THEY'RE PRETTY CLOSE TO EACH OTHER. YEAH. WHAT IS THIS? THERE'S A LOT OF [01:45:01] OFFICE USES THAT ARE NOT ALLOWED RELATIVE, LIKE PUBLIC AND CIVIC USES DOWNTOWN. SO TECHNICALLY YOU CAN'T HAVE CITY HALL IN DOWNTOWN MUNICIPAL AND COMMUNITY RECREATION DOESN'T SAY THAT. NO, IT DOESN'T. HERE GO DOWN. GOVERNMENT GO DOWN. I CAN'T SEE. OH YES. GOVERNMENT ADMIN BUILDINGS. YOU CAN'T DO THAT. YOU CAN'T HAVE POST OFFICE HERE EITHER. WE'RE NONCONFORMING. UH, YEAH, WE'RE GONNA SEE THAT PERMIT, SIR. REALLY? YEP. THAT DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT, DOES IT? YEAH. THAT I, I GUESS EXPLAIN THAT, TRAVIS. I MEAN, I MEAN THESE ARE A LOT OF OFFICE TYPE BUILDINGS. UH, IS IT LIKE REDUCTION OF TAX? I, I, I DON'T HAVE AN EXACT EXPLANATION FOR THAT. . OKAY. I UNDERSTAND. YEAH. NOT NOT COMING AT YOU. JUST UNDERSTAND. KIND, CURIOUS. 'CAUSE I, I GET, BUT AGAIN YEAH. WE'RE, IT ALMOST MAKES IT TO WHERE YOU WANT DOWNTOWN TO BE YOUR, YOUR BUSINESSES TO DRIVE REVENUE AND DRIVE. WELL, I'M EVEN GOING LIKE, UH, YOU CAN'T HAVE A, A DENTIST OFFICE DOWN HERE IN DOWNTOWN. RIGHT. SO, SO DEFINITELY LIKE, UH, SERVICES AND STUFF IS, IS PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD WANT LESS OF IN DOWNTOWN AND MORE REVENUE DRIVEN BUSINESSES LIKE RETAIL OR MM-HMM . UH, YOU KNOW, BARS OR SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WANNA WALK TO ALL OTHER PARKS AND OPEN AREA USE IS NOT LISTED ABOVE. THOSE ARE ALL APPROVED NATURALLY. UH, TECHNICALLY YOU WANT TO SOCIAL SERVICES BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE YOU WANT YOUR AUTOCENTRIC. SEE THE DT, THAT'S THE GREEN COLORED UP AT THE TOP. YES, SIR. THE DARK GREEN. OKAY. IT DOESN'T ALLOW GOVERNMENT ADMINISTRATION BUILDINGS OR POST OFFICES. YEAH. WE WERE JUST SAYING THAT OUR, OUR CITY HALL IS NON-CONFORMING NOW. EXACTLY. I MEAN, I MIGHT, IF Y'ALL COULD MAKE A SUGGESTION THAT THEY RECOLORED THE TOP OF THE TABLE, THE MATCH THE ZONING MAP, THAT WOULD CERTAINLY HELP. YEAH. WHAT IS IT NOT THE ZONING MAP DOESN'T, DOESN'T MATCH THE CAR. DOWNTOWN IS GREEN USE TABLE. YEAH. COME ON, TRAVIS. I MEAN, THAT SEEMS TOTALLY WRONG NOT TO HAVE . I DON'T KNOW WHY IT ENDED UP THAT WAY, BUT GOOD SIGNIFICANT. ALL OTHER ENTERTAINMENT INDOOR USES NOT LISTED ABOVE ARE NOT ALLOWED. LIKE, YOU CAN'T, CAN'T HAVE A, UM, I MEAN YOU CAN'T HAVE A DOCTOR'S OFFICE OR A DENTIST OFFICE. NOPE. DOWNTOWN. I MEAN, IS THAT WHAT WE REALLY WANT? YEAH. AND I, I GUESS SO TRAVIS KIND OF, I THINK THE WAY WE'RE OUR CONVERSATION IS GOING IS POST OFFICE, WE'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS THING. MAYBE I NEED TO KEEP SCROLLING DOWN. POST OFFICE IS CURRENTLY SITTING IN DOWNTOWN, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE PARKS, NO OFFICES, BUT WE CAN HAVE, CAN HAVE BED AND BREAKFAST AND SHORT TERM RENTALS. SURE. OR SAY THAT SURE, GLAD WE CAN CAN'T HAVE AIRPORT. AND WE GET DOWN TO OVERNIGHT ACCOMMODATIONS. CAN'T HAVE A HOTEL. CAN'T HAVE AN AIRPORT. YEAH, SURE. GLAD WE CAN'T HAVE AIRPORTS. YEAH. NOT DOWNTOWN. PARKING IS A GIVEN. FOOD TRUCK, COURTS, RESTAURANTS. THAT'S WHAT'S ALLOWED. SO IT'S, IT, IT, IT, IT, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE OTHER WAS AUTOCENTRIC WHERE PEOPLE WERE SUPPOSED TO DRIVE THIS IS WALKING CENTRIC. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO DOWNTOWN IS SUPPOSED TO BE WALKABILITY. YES, MA'AM. OKAY. SO MAYBE THAT NEEDS TO BE PART OF THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WALKABILITY THAT, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS DESCRIPTOR, YOU KNOW, BUT THAT, I MEAN, THAT'S THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF DOWNTOWN WALKABILITY. RIGHT. SO IN THEORY, YEAH. BUT YOU CAN HAVE DOCTOR'S OFFICES. NO, YOU CAN CAN'T HAVE DOCTOR'S OFFICES, DOCTORS. I MEAN, YOU CAN WALK TO A DOCTOR'S OFFICE, CAN'T YOU? WE CAN HAVE AQUARIUMS AND MUSEUMS AND LIBRARIES AND RESTAURANTS. YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T WALK TO THOSE WITHOUT FIRST PARKING SOMEWHERE. SAME WITH THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE. AND YOU CAN'T HAVE PARKING IN THIS ONE. YEAH. LITERALLY. THIS THING IS, UH, NO, I LIKE THE WALKABILITY IDEA THOUGH. YEAH. I MEAN, I MEAN, WHAT YOU'RE JUST SAYING, IT'S MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T RESTRICT IT TO THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, BUT THERE ARE OTHER PLACES FOR THOSE OFFICES TO GO. SO THAT'S TRUE. UH, YOU KNOW, URBAN TRANSITION AND SOME, AND NOT, PARDON ME SOME. SO, UH, SOME OF THESE OTHER PLACES ARE, ARE OPEN TO DOCTOR'S OFFICE AND MEDICAL STUFF. THEY'RE PROMOTING IT AND THIS IS NOT PROMOTING IT. YEAH. AND SO THAT'S KIND OF, AND WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT IT IN THE FUTURE. WHERE, WHERE IS THE DOWNTOWN AREA GRANTED, BUT IN MY HEAD I'M KIND OF, I'M THINKING ABOUT IT ALONG THE LINES OF THE OVERLAY DISTRICT WAS KIND OF, YEAH. I PICTURED DICKINSON'S DOWNTOWN TO BE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, A FEW BLOCKS OFF OF FIVE 17, A FEW BLOCKS OFF OF HIGHWAY THREE. BUT READING WHAT IS ALLOWED IN THIS BOTTOM LINE, IT'S, CALL IT WHAT IT IS. IT'S, [01:50:01] IT'S RESTAURANTS AND, AND TAVERNS OR BARS. YOU KNOW, IT'S IN CONVENTION CENTERS. IT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR ANY RETAIL EITHER. NO, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. IT'S, IT'S RESTAURANTS. AND SO THE RETAIL, THE RETAIL, I CAN EXPAND ON A LITTLE BIT. THAT'S OTHER, UH, I BELIEVE THAT WAS AN ERROR WHEN THIS TABLE WAS PUBLISHED. UH, AND THERE IS LANGUAGE IN THE BEGINNING OF THE UDC THAT DESCRIBES, UH, IN AN INSTANCE WHERE THERE'S A CONFLICT IN THE TEXT AND A TABLE THAT THE TEXT WOULD TAKE PRECEDENCE. UH, AND SO IF YOU REFER TO THE DESCRIPTION OF THE DOWNTOWN ZONING DISTRICT, IT SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS RETAIL. MM-HMM . MM-HMM . UH, SO WE ARE HONORING THIS ALL SCALE RETAIL. RIGHT. AND SO WE ACT UNTIL WE ACTUALLY GET A TEXT AMENDMENT DONE ON THIS, UH, WE ARE HONORING THE USE OF THIS. GO, GO BACK, THE ONE THAT SAYS, UH, ALL OTHER RETAIL USES LISTED ABOVE. YEAH. GO, GO BACK TO THE DESCRIPTOR OF THE I WILL, I WILL. NO, THIS IS THE ONE THAT WE'RE HONORING. I UNDERSTAND. OKAY. BECAUSE BASICALLY THAT FIRST SENTENCE, SMALL SCALE RETAIL OFFICE AND SERVICE BUSINESSES, UH, THAT BASICALLY I WOULD SAY 70% OF THIS, UH, CONSOLIDATED USE TABLE IS IN CONFLICT WITH THAT SENTENCE. YEAH. WHAT, WHAT UNDERSTOOD. SEE FOR YOU TO HAVE WALKABILITY AND TO HAVE A REASON FOR SOMEBODY TO GO DOWN THERE. YES. AND IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY FOR SMALL DOCTOR'S OFFICES, PEOPLE WILL GO TO THEIR DOCTOR AND THEN THEY MIGHT STAY THE REST OF THE TIME TO GO TO OTHER PLACES. YEAH. RIGHT. SO I FEEL LIKE THE, THE CONSOLIDATED USE TABLE IS VERY LIMITED ON DOWNTOWN. AND IT SHOULD BE EXPANDED OUT. 'CAUSE I THINK THERE SHOULD BE. YEAH, A HUNDRED PERCENT. YOU MIGHT HAVE YOUR ATTORNEY DOWN THERE AND YOU GO DOWN THERE AND THEN YOU GO TO THE CORNER RESTAURANT. YEAH. HAVE LUNCH WITH YOUR ATTORNEY WHILE YOU'RE AT IT. TEXAS CITY'S DONE A LOT ON THEIR MAIN STREET, HIGHWAY, SIXTH STREET, SOME KIND OF DIFFERENT THINGS. SO WE COULD GO SEE AN ATTORNEY AND THEN RIGHT THERE IS THE CORNER RESTAURANT WHERE YOU CAN EAT AND THEY HAVE A LITTLE MUSEUM THAT YOU CAN GO TO. SO THEY HAVE A LOT OF VARIETY. AND VEGAS, UH, THEY BEEN PICKING UP ON THEIR NIGHTLIFE IN DOWNTOWN THAT, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY CALL THAT THEIR DOWNTOWN, BUT THAT THAT STREET, THEY HAVE SIXTH, SIXTH STREET. RIGHT. SO THEY HAVE RESTAURANTS AND SOME BARS THAT'LL BE OPEN IN THE EVENING AND PLACES WHERE YOU CAN DO THINGS IN THE NIGHT AS WELL. MM-HMM . WHAT ARE YOU SAYING, DEBORAH? SO, GOING BACK OVER HERE, HERE IT SAYS URBAN CENTER. I THINK HAVING CITY HALL AS PART OF THAT, HAVING LIBRARY AS PART OF THAT I THINK IS APPROPRIATE BECAUSE IT'S PART OF AN URBAN CENTER THAT THE, UM, POST OFFICE, I MEAN, THAT WHOLE CONCEPT OF, UH, AGAIN, IF YOU USE THE WORD WALKABILITY AS THE, AS THE, UM, UMBRELLA, I THINK IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. SO TRAVIS, I'M GOING TO MAKE A STATEMENT AND FORGIVE ME PHIL, I'M GONNA, BUT BOTTOM LINE, THE, THE ZONING DISTRICT DOWNTOWN, THE, THE TABLE IS VERY INCORRECT. AND I DON'T SEE A, THE POINT IN US HAVING A TABLE THAT OUR OWN GOVERNMENT IS NOT COMPLIANT WITH. I MEAN, IT, IT'S DICKINSON. RIGHT. I KNOW THIS WAS BUILT PROBABLY WITH THE UDC IN GENERAL, BUT WE STILL NEED TO ADJUST THIS TILL IT'S ACTUALLY DICKINSON. I MEAN, WE HAVE A POST OFFICE IN OUR DOWNTOWN AREA. LET'S NOT MAKE IT NON-CONFORMING. YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOT GONNA BE A LOT OF POST OFFICE, THERE'S NOT GONNA BE A LOT OF GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS. THERE'S NO REASON WHY NOT TO SAY THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED. IT SAYS AN OFFICE. THERE'S A LOT. SOME, IT'S VERY CLEARLY ON THE MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS ARE NOT ALLOWED. YEAH. CURRENTLY. IT'S RIDICULOUS. BILL, WHY DON'T WE GET THE BALL CHART AGAIN AND JUST GO DOWN THE LIST AND MAKE CHANGES. WE COULD DO THAT. OR RECOMMENDATIONS. ABSOLUTELY. . JUST GO DOWN THE, THE LIST AND SEE WHAT'S, WHAT WE SHOULD ALLOW, WHAT WE SHOULDN'T ALLOW. DID YOU WANNA START IN RESIDENTIAL OR YOU WANT TO NO, NO. D DT JUST DOWNTOWN. DON'T GO THERE. RIGHT. BUT THE RESIDENTIAL USE IS IN DOWNTOWN. OKAY. SO THAT'S THE COOL THING ABOUT DOWNTOWN IS IT ALLOWS FOR RESIDENTIAL USE. LIKE FOR STORY. SO YOU HAVE YOUR OFFICE. WELL, IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T RIGHT NOW. SO WE NEED TO IT DOES, IT DOES. IT DOES. IN THE LIVE WORK. MULTIPLE LIVE WORK HOMES, APARTMENTS. LET'S GO ON UPPER STORY. YOU DROP A SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE DOWNTOWN. YEAH. GOTCHA. SO YOU CAN LIVE UPPER LEVELS. UPPER STORY. YEAH. THAT'S ALLOWED. I'M OKAY WITH THE HOUSEHOLD LIVING. OKAY. I THINK THAT'S REALISTIC. OKAY. HOLD ON. HOLD ON. HOLD ON. GO BACK. SO, UH, SO, UH, DAVID, DO YOU WANNA I'M LOOKING AT THESE RIGHT HERE. I'M LOOKING AT, YEAH, I WAS GONNA SAY, I HAVE IT HERE TOO. IF YOU, IF YOU GO, OH NO, I'M COOL. UM, FINE. I'M NOT SHARING , UH, TOWNHOUSE. DO WE WANT A TOWNHOUSE? THE MIDDLE OF DOWNTOWN? IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT [01:55:01] SHOULD BE IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA. ME TOO. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW THAT I WANT A TOWNHOUSE, THE MIDDLE OF DOWNTOWN. 'CAUSE WE'VE ALREADY RESTRICTED DOWNTOWN BECAUSE THERE'S NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A RESIDENTIAL OR A, IN A TOWN HOME. STILL BOTH. RESIDENTIAL JUST HAS MULTIPLE OCCUPANTS. WOULD YEAH, I DON'T, I DON'T PARTICULARLY CARE FOR THAT. IN DOWNTOWN, IN A SPECIFIC DOWNTOWN AREA, I CAN SEE APARTMENTS. SO EVEN WITH THE APARTMENTS AND TOWN HOMES, WHAT IF WE MADE THAT A BLACK CIRCLE WHERE BOTTOM LINE, WHATEVER THE SPECIFIC SCENARIO THEY WOULD HAVE TO GET APPROVAL FOR? NOT A BLACK CIRCLE. YOU MEAN HALF BLACK CIRCLE OR WHATEVER? NO, UH, THE BLACK CIRCLE WOULD BE COUNCIL APPROVAL. YEAH. OH, OKAY. I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD. YES, MA'AM. WE DEVELOPED THIS THING ORIGINALLY THIS A TOWNHOUSE IN SOME PLACE. LIKE, LET'S JUST GO USE AN EXAMPLE, IS, UH, SPARTANBURG, SOUTH CAROLINA. THEY HAD THEM OLD COTTON MILLS THERE AND THEY WENT IN AND BUILT TOWNHOUSES IN 'EM. AND, AND THE, AND THE YOUNGER PEOPLE WENT IN AND PAID HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR THOSE THINGS. BUT THAT WAS IN DOWNTOWN. SO THEY COULD GO DOWN AND THEY COULD WALK TO THE RESTAURANT. YEAH. GOOD POINT. MM-HMM . WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE THAT DICKINSON. THAT BEING, WELL, NEVER NO , WELL, I, I'M GONNA SAY THE OLD AMEE BANK BUILDING. NOT IN OUR LIFETIME. THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE. UPPER SECTION COULD BE TURNED INTO RETAIL AND THE ENTIRE UPPER SECTION COULD BE. NOW ARE THEY APARTMENTS? THEY TOWN HOMES. ARE THEY ABOVE CONDOS? ARE THEY ABOVE LIVING? I DON'T KNOW. BUT AGAIN, I THINK IF WE JUST MADE IT A BLACK CIRCLE, THAT WAY THE COUNCIL HAS THE RIGHT. GOOD POINT. IT DOESN'T TELL EVERYBODY YOU CAN'T DO IT, BUT COUNCIL'S GOTTA APPROVE IT. GOOD POINT. YEAH. YEAH. MR. HENDERSON, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING UP THAT SPECIFIC EXAMPLE. 'CAUSE IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA THAT THAT IS PROBABLY THE BEST EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT COULD QUALIFY FOR REDEVELOPMENT, RIGHT? MM-HMM . UH, AND, AND SO I WOULD DEFINITELY ENCOURAGE Y'ALL TO KEEP OPTIONS OPEN. UH, COOL. OKAY. I, I CONCUR ON THAT. GOT THAT. THANK YOU. SO, OKAY, SO CIRCLE, OKAY, LET'S, TOWNHOUSES AND APARTMENTS SHOULD BE BLACK CIRCLE. YEP. UPPER STORY RESIDENTIAL. YEAH. THAT'S PEOPLE, THAT'S WORK LIVE, ISN'T IT? IT PEOPLE I USED? NO, DEBORAH WAS, WAS YOU LIVE ON THE SECOND LEVEL. EXCUSE ME. IT WAS AN OLD TOWN THAT THEY, THAT THE COUNCIL OR THE CITY SPECIFICALLY DEVELOPED INTO THAT TYPE OF LIVING. MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY BUILT THOSE RESTAURANTS, THEY ENCOURAGED THOSE RESTAURANTS, THEY ENCOURAGED THOSE VENUES SO THAT THOSE TYPE OF TOWNHOUSES ATTRACTIVE TO PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY COULD LIVE AND WORK RIGHT THERE IN THAT . I JUST DIDN'T UNDERSTAND UPPER STORY RESIDENTIAL. YEAH. YOU LIVE ON THE SECOND LEVEL AND YOU HAVE OFFICES ON THE FIRST LEVEL. THE IMAGE BUILDING A GOOD EXAMPLE. OKAY. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE WITH THAT? IN, IN WORK? UH, YOU OWN THE BUSINESS TOO. NO, EXCUSE ME. AND LIVE WORK UNIT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE TWO STORIES. IT COULD BE ONE STORY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THAT'S CORRECT. GO AHEAD. IT COULD BE THAT YOU'RE LIVING ON THE SAME LEVEL. GOTCHA. OKAY. AND YOU MAY NOT NECESSARILY OWN THE BOTTOM. OKAY. GOTCHA. OKAY, LET'S MOVE ON. ALL RIGHT. GROUP LIVING. I'M, I'M KIND OF OKAY WITH THIS IS THE ONE THAT DOESN'T MATTER ANYWAY. THE, THE, THE STATE IS GONNA DICTATE US. YEAH. OH, IT SAYS THAT YOU CAN'T DO IT. YEAH. BUT UNTIL THE STATE COMES AND TELL US WE HAVE TO, WE PUT IT IN A NURSING HOME, I'M OKAY. UNTIL WE GET CHILD SAYING LET'S SAY NO. OKAY. YEAH. UNDERSTOOD. ALL OTHER GROUP LIVING SITUATIONS? NO. OKAY. GO ON. YOU CAN HAVE A MUSEUM OR A LI A LIBRARY. YEAH. LIBRARY. WHICH WE HAVE. YEAH. AND MUNICIPAL AND COMMUNITY REC AREAS. WE DO HAVE THAT ALREADY. YEAH. WE GOT A PARK DOWN THERE IN BAYOU. UH, OTHER COMMUNITY FACILITIES USE, I WOULD CALL THAT A BLACK CIRCLE GOING LET COUNCIL, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT CLOSED, BUT IT'S GOTTA BE AGREED UPON. OKAY. SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT LIKE CHURCHES OR PLACES OF WORSHIP ARE INCLUDED IN THIS CATEGORY. UH, SO, BUT IT'S STILL A BLACK CIRCLE. I MEAN, DEPENDING ON WHAT IT IS. CHURCH, WE, WE GET, UH, CHURCHES COME BEFORE US ALL THE TIME FOR PLANNING AND ZONING. CORRECT. WE DO REQUIRE, IF YOU NOTICE, UH, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR IN CHURCH, YOU CAN'T ZONE ANY, UH, SO YOU MAY REQUIRE IT. STATE, STATE REQUIRES, UH, USE LAW TO WHAT? SAY, SAY IT PLEASE. THE RELIGIOUS, UH, FACILITIES. YEAH. UM, YOU CAN'T TECHNICALLY ZONE THEM OUT OF, OF ANY, ANY PARTIAL OF LAND. YOU, YOU CAN DENY. UH, BUT YOU CAN REQUEST AN SUP FORM. DO YOU? YOU CAN'T REQUEST NO, YOU HAVE TO APPROVE. YOU HAVE TO, I'M GONNA USE THAT WORD ALL DAY. THAT'S, THAT'S FINE. DON'T GET USED TO IT. ADDITIONAL, GO AHEAD. THE LEGISLATION, UH, THE, UH, LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE REQUIRE YOU TO, YOU HAVE TO APPROVE A, A HOUSE OF WORSHIP OR A RELIGIOUS FACILITY. NOT BLANKET. YOU DON'T HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE AIR. YOU CAN PUT RESTRICTIONS. YOU CAN PUT RESTRICTIONS ON IT, BUT YOU CANNOT ZONE THEM OUT. NO, I GOT THAT PART. YEAH, BUT YOU CAN, OKAY, NEVERMIND. LIKE ON THE ONE THAT WE'VE EVER REJECTED HAS BEEN A PRODUCT OF PARKING OR, UH, CAPACITY AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT NEVER JUST FOR THE SAKE OF BEING A CHURCH. OH, [02:00:01] I GOTCHA. OKAY. YEAH. GO. LET'S GO ON. YEAH. YOU'VE BEEN PART OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS. YES. GO ON, DT, MOVE DOWN. THANK YOU. WHERE YOU AT NOW? THAT'S WHY YOU WANTED ME TO JOIN YOU, . I KNOW I ASKED YOU DIDN'T LISTEN. GOVERNMENT OFFICES. ALL RIGHT. WHICH ONE ARE WE IN NOW? ARE YOU DOWN TO MEDICAL FACILITIES? NOW WE WANT TO OFFER THAT. GO BACK UP. WAIT A MINUTE. WE, WE WENT PAST GOVERNMENT FACILITIES. YEAH. OKAY. LET'S GO DOWN. HUH? GO UP. GOVERNMENT FACILITIES. GOVERNMENT ADMINISTRATION. GOVERNMENT ADMINISTRATION. POST OFFICES. POST OFFICES. WE WANT TO ALLOW THAT. THEY SHOULD BE QUITE QUITE SURE. WHAT, WHAT'S ALL OTHER GOVERNMENT? WELL, BOTTOM LINE, IT'S GONNA BE A GOVERNMENT ENTITY. SO WHATEVER THE GOVERNMENT ENTITY IS, IT'S GONNA HAVE TO GO THROUGH COUNCIL ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, OR BE PART OF COUNCIL. AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US IN THIS ROOM HAVE ANY AUTHORITY TO SAY YAY OR NAY ON THAT. IT'S GONNA YEAH. BUT WE DON'T WANNA TAKE IT OUT. IT'S GOT TO I'M THINKING LIKE, TO ADD IT BECAUSE AGREE. YEAH. I'M SAYING PUT A, PUT A ZERO THERE BECAUSE, OR CIRCLE BECAUSE BOTTOM LINE, IT'S, IT'S GONNA BE ALLOWED. YEAH. DO Y'ALL AGREE? YEAH. I DON'T DISAGREE. YEAH. WHY WOULDN'T, YEAH, EXACTLY. THAT'S WHY I SAY WE'RE IN DICKINSON, WE'RE ALREADY NONCONFORMING BY THE FACT WE'RE SITTING RIGHT HERE. YEAH. YEAH. AND, UH, UH, MEDICAL DENTALS. YEAH. THAT, I THINK THAT'S A CIRCLE. YEAH. AND THE EMPHASIS ON CLINIC OR OFFICE. YEAH. DOES THAT CLARIFY THAT? IN 1813, I, YEAH, WE DON'T NEED A LABORATORY IN THE MIDDLE OF DOWNTOWN, BUT THE OTHERS WOULD BE, I'M SORRY, FOR WHICH ONE? THE MEDICAL, THE MEDICAL CLINIC OR THE CLINIC? THE CLINIC. YOU KNOW, SO I IS WHAT ROBERT WAS SAYING, THAT MADE SENSE. SO THE ONLY, THE ONLY STANDARD ON THAT ONE IS FOR THE SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, IT LIMITS THE SIZE. I'M SORRY, SAY THAT AGAIN. THE ONLY LIMITED USE STANDARD ON THAT USE, UH, ONLY APPLIES TO THE SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. UH, AND IT LIMITS THE SIZE TO 15,000 SQUARE FEET. SO IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT. OH. IT CAN'T BE 15,000 SQUARE FEET IN THE MIDDLE OF DOWNTOWN. CAN IT? BUT THESE ARE SPECIFICALLY CLINICS OR OFFICES THERE ARE GONNA BE SMALLER THAN HOSPITAL REHABILITATIVE CARE. RIGHT? WHAT? RIGHT. WHAT I'M SAYING THERE'S, THERE'S NO STANDARDS CURRENTLY THAT APPLY TO DOWNTOWN. WHAT, WHEN HE CLICKS ON THE 18 DASH 13, IT, IT DOESN'T. 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW ON THE TABLE IT DOESN'T HAVE THAT IS A USE. WOULD YOU CLICK ON THAT PLEASE? MM-HMM . SO THERE'S, THERE'S NOTHING. IT REFERS TO THIS PART ALL THE WAY DOWN HERE AT THE BOTTOM. AND SO THAT'S THE STANDARD THAT IS PUT ON THAT USE IF IT'S ALLOWED IN THE SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. UH, SO IF WE WANTED TO PUT ANY FURTHER, UH, LIMITED USE STANDARDS ON THAT USE FOR THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT, WE, WE WOULD HAVE TO COME UP WITH THOSE. ALRIGHT. YEAH. I GOTCHA. DO WE WANNA PUT THAT AS A BLACK CIRCLE THEN? YEAH. OR HALF BLACK. THAT'S UP TO Y'ALL. IF, IF WE WANNA, WELL, BECAUSE I'M NOT OPPOSED TO DENTIST OFFICES OR, YOU KNOW, BASIC CLINICS. WHAT, WHAT HE IS SAYING THOUGH, IF WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE ALLOWED TO BE 15,000 SQUARE FEET, WHICH WOULD TAKE A BIG AREA OF OUR DOWNTOWN, WE NEED TO CHANGE THAT PART OF IT. THIS PART. YEAH. TO LABEL IT LIKE UP TO, YOU KNOW, 3000 SQUARE FEET OR FOUR THOU, WHATEVER, BUT NOT CERTAINLY 15,000 SQUARE FEET. SEE, SEE WHAT I MEAN? YEAH. SO LET'S GO BACK TO THESE USES. SO IT'S IMPORTANT, YOU KNOW, THAT WE KNOW THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HOSPITAL AND SOMETHING LARGER AND A CLINIC. MM-HMM . SO THERE'S ALREADY SOMEWHAT OF A PROTECTION IF, YOU KNOW, THEY COME IN AND THEY WANNA PUT IN THIS HUGE HOSPITAL THAN NO. YEAH. SO WE ALREADY HAVE SOME PROTECTION THERE, BUT, AND, BUT WE HAVE A NON-USE FOR MEDICAL OR DENTAL. AND NOW WE'RE SAYING WE'D LIKE TO HAVE THAT, BUT WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE 15,000 SQUARE FEET. CAN YOU MAKE IT A BLACK CIRCLE? AND THEN WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO APPROVE, DISAPPROVE BY OUR OWN, UH, LIMITED USE PERMIT SIZE. YEAH. IF, IF SIZE IS, WHERE WOULD YOU PUT THIS ON THIS LINE? THAT'S, IF SIZE IS A CONCERN, OR IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER CONCERN, WE CAN CERTAINLY, YEAH. I THINK SIZE IS THE LION'S SHARE OF THE CONCERN. YEAH. I MEAN, A DENTIST OR A DOCTOR'S OFFICE DOESN'T BOTHER US. 3000, I'D SAY. YEAH. 3000 FEET UNDER OR SOMETHING. YEAH. AND IF THEY'RE COMING AT 30, UM, WHERE THE CHAMBER USED TO BE, THERE'S A LITTLE FOUR COMPLEX, COMPLEX, AND THAT BUILDING'S OWNED BY THE WATER DISTRICT. MM-HMM . STILL. AND THERE'S A DENTIST NEXT DOOR. I DUNNO WHAT SIZE THOSE ARE, BUT THAT GIVES YOU A GOOD IDEA OF THE SIZE. I THINK IF WE SAY 3000, I THINK WE'VE COMPANIES WHAT WOULD BE FAIR, FAIR AREA WHEN 32, WE'VE GOTTA GET AWAY AREA. YEAH. AND IF THEY NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE, THEY'D COME IN FRONT OF STUFF. BUT OTHERWISE, [02:05:01] YEAH. I'D SAY THAT ALL IN FAVOR. OKAY. , MOVING ALONG. REALLY. ALL RIGHT. UH, OBVIOUSLY NO RV PARKS, ALL OTHER PARKS. OPEN AREA. GO DOWN. CRAVIS. WHERE ARE YOU GUYS AT? HERE? OR YOUR UTILITIES. YEAH, THOSE GO WITHOUT SAYING. YEAH. WHY DO WE HAVE A UTILITY IN THE MIDDLE OF DOWNTOWN? WELL, IT'S ALWAYS GONNA BE THAT WAY ON EVERY PART OF OUR CITY. MINE'S GONNA BE YOUR, UM, BAR TAVERNS. OKAY. A CONVENTION CENTER. WAIT, HOLD ON. GO UP TO MINOR. YEAH. IF THEY'VE GOTTA PUT A TELEPHONE BOX. OKAY. GO TO MAJOR. THIS IS GONNA BE YOUR SUBSTATIONS, YOUR WATER. WELL, WHY WOULD, WHY DON'T WE EVEN HAVE THAT IN DOWNTOWN? WE USED TO HAVE THE PHONE. WE'VE GOT IT RIGHT THERE IN DOWNTOWN ALREADY GT OVER THERE OFF OF, UH, TIMBER. YEAH. NOT ONLY ARE THESE BUILDINGS, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE INFRASTRUCTURE LIKE LIFT STATIONS FROM STATE YEAH. STATE DRIVEN STUFF THAT'S REQUIRED TO, TO POWER INFRASTRUCTURE. OKAY. SO THAT MINE IS NOT A TELECOMMUNICATION TOWER. RIGHT. THAT IS ITS OWN ZONING, UH, DISTRICT. YEAH. SO MINE IS SOMETHING ELSE. MINE UTILITY IS SOMETHING ELSE. AGAIN, TELEPHONE BOXES. TELEPHONE POLES. NO, IT'S TELECOMMUNICATION. IT'S, IT'S ING. I'M TALKING ABOUT MINOR UTILITY. NO, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? WELL, YOU MAY WANT A, YOU MAY WANT A WIRELESS INTERNET REPEATER THAT THOSE GO, THAT'S UNDER TELECOMMUNICATION. THERE'S ANOTHER DESCRIPTOR FOR IT UP THERE. HERE'S, HERE'S KIND OF A MORE EXPANDED VERSION OF THE MINOR AND MAJOR UTILITIES TELE ANTENNA. THAT'S WHAT I SAID. WELL, THEN WHY DO YOU HAVE A SEPARATE DEAL THAT SAYS TELECOMMUNICATION TOWER? YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY PUT ON RIGHT THERE BY OWENS AND FIVE 17 THE OTHER DAY. OH, SO THAT'S A TOWER, RIGHT? COMMUNIC TOWER, AN ANTENNA, UH, COULD BE MOUNTED TO, YOU KNOW, ANY TYPE OF STRUCTURE ON TOP OF A BUILDING. GO, GO BACK TO THE CIRCLE THING. I'M GONNA SHOW YOU WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. GO CIRCLE. OKAY, GO UP. OKAY. SO THEY HAVE NO, NO, WAIT. RIGHT HERE. OKAY. THEY HAVE TWO SEPARATE DEALS. MI, MINOR UTILITY AND TELECOMMUNICATION TOWER. SO, I MEAN, TO ME THAT, WELL, AND SOME OF THOSE ONE'S SUBSUMED UNDER THE OTHER. WELL, SOME OF THOSE TOWERS CAN BE ANYWHERE FROM A HUNDRED. DID YOU SEE THE TOWER THEY INSTALLED BY OWENS? YEAH. BUT I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE, HUH? I'M, WHAT I'M THINKING OF THAT THAT MEANS IS SOMETHING LIKE IF YOU GO TO NEW ORLEANS, THEY HAVE THE LITTLE CELL REPEATERS ON EVERY BLOCK AND THEY'RE MAYBE 10 OR 12 FOOT TALL. AND THEY ALSO HAVE, UH, CAMERA'S ON TOO. I WOULD PUT THOSE UNDER MINOR. THANK YOU. CORRECT. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING IS WHY IS THERE A SEPARATE INDICATOR FOR THEM? BECAUSE AGAIN, THE TOWER THAT THEY PUT OVER BY OWENS, THAT'S A BIG INFRASTRUCTURE. IT'S BIG. IT'S A HUNDRED FEET TALL, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT DOWNTOWN, HUH? THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN PUT THAT. YEAH, THEY COULD. THERE'S A GTE BUILDING RIGHT NEXT DOOR. SO THAT'S, YOU'RE SAYING RIGHT NOW YOU CAN, SO IF WE DON'T WANT IT, WE NEED TO GET IT OUT OF THERE. WELL, AGAIN, I THINK THE FCC IS GONNA DRIVE THAT MORE THAN US. WELL, THERE'S ALSO THE HAS TO GO THROUGH COUNCIL, HAVE APPROVAL ANYWAY. YEAH. IT'S, IT'S LIMITED USE. UH, SO THERE, OUR TELECOMMUNICATION TOWER SECTION IS ACTUALLY, UH, PRETTY MUCH CUT AND PASTED FROM MUNI CODE. UH, AND IT'S FAIRLY ROBUST. IT HAS DISTANCE REQUIREMENTS, UH, YOU KNOW, A RATIO TO THE HEIGHT VERSUS A DISTANCE THAT NEEDS TO BE FROM RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES. UM, I THINK AT THAT POINT IT IS. THE GOVERNMENT'S GONNA BE DICTATING IT. WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT? I WAS LIKE THAT FOR INFRASTRUCTURE. SO, UM, OKAY. IT CAN ALSO BE SEEN AS THE, UM, 'CAUSE I THINK THEY'RE PUTTING A, UM, OVER BY A BASS PRO SHOP AT THE PUTTING NUT. THEY, UM, LOOKS LIKE A EITHER TORNADO WARNING OR HURRICANE WARNING ALERT SYSTEM. MM-HMM . SO WHEN THE OWENS LET'S, UH, CAN I DIGRESS FOR JUST A SECOND? WHEN WE HAD THE OWENS THING COME IN FRONT OF THE COUNCIL, OKAY. WE HAD SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS OF HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO LOOK OUTSIDE, RIGHT? MM-HMM . HAVE YOU SEEN IT? DON'T HAVE NONE OF 'EM. RIGHT? NONE OF IT PROJECT'S NOT COMPLETED. I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH, UH, THAT COMPANY. YES, MA'AM. OKAY, GOOD. WE'LL MOVE ON. UNDERSTAND. UNDERSTOOD. I SAW A REALLY, I WAS IN SOME STATE, I FORGET WHAT STATE, AND I SAW A ONE THAT WAS SHAPED LIKE A, A TREE. IT WAS SO COOL. [02:10:01] YEAH. SO WE HAVE A SECTION IN OUR ORDINANCE THAT, THAT TALKS ABOUT THAT IS CALLED MASKING OR STEALTH TECHNOLOGY. YEAH. AND SO WE DO TRY TO PUSH THAT, UH, BECAUSE THEY, THEY GET PRETTY CREATIVE WITH THAT STUFF, YOU KNOW? YEAH. THAT WAS WONDERFUL. PRETTY. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE HAVE DONE, . YEAH, THEY DID. WE TRIED TO PITCH THAT TO, TO THAT ONE. THEY DIDN'T, THEY DIDN'T BUY IT. SO NO REDWOODS AROUND HERE AND WE CAN'T REQUIRE IT. UH, WE CAN'T REQUIRE IT. UH, AS LONG AS THEY MEET THE STANDARDS, YOU KNOW, OTHERWISE. YES, MA'AM. THAT'S A PROBLEM. OKAY. SEE, CAN WE BACK UP TO THE UTILITIES AGAIN ON THAT, THAT BULL CHART WE TALKED ABOUT, UM, MAJOR UTILITIES. UM, WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF THAT MAJOR UTILITY? THOSE ARE TRUE INFRASTRUCTURE. IF, IF SOMETHING LIKE THAT IS REQUIRED TO PROVIDE SERVICE TO THE AREA, UM, WE CAN'T DISALLOW IT. RIGHT. BUT IT DOES HAVE TO COME BEFORE COUNCIL. SO THEY HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE IMPACT OF THE COMMUNITY. OKAY. SO IT IS NOT DISALLOWED THEN. OKAY. RIGHT. IT IS ALLOWED WITH, UH, ION USE PERMIT BY COUNSEL. OKAY. I'M SORRY. NO PROBLEM. THANK YOU. YES, SIR. OKAY. THEY CAN PUT A GO POWER SUBSTATION DOWNTOWN. YEAH. UP WE GO. YEAH. UH, HOLD ON. SO WHAT IS IT ABOUT A GYM THAT REQUIRES X REVIEW? THE LIMITED USE STANDARDS FOR A GYM OR FITNESS STUDIO? 13. I'M SORRY, I FORGOT THE, WHERE'S MY BACK BUTTON? I, I THINK IT MUST BE, YEAH, I MEAN, WHAT IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO PUT A YOGA SHOP IN? I MEAN, THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT PULL A LOT OF PEOPLE TO DOWNTOWN. SO I'M JUST CURIOUS WHY IT'S LIMITED. WHAT, UH, OKAY. SO THAT, THAT IS THE SAME. IS IT SPACING SIZE, 15,000 SQUARE FOOT LIMITATION? IT IS ONLY, IT'S JUST LIMITING THE SIZE. YES, SIR. AND CAN WE DO A COMPARABLE RESPONSE TO THAT, UH, AS WE DID WITH THE, UH, DOCTOR'S OFFICES? MM-HMM . APPROVE IT UP TO 3000 SQUARE FOOT, OR WHATEVER'S A GOOD NUMBER, UH, FOR A SIZE OF A GYM. IT, IT MAY BE MORE THAN 3000, BUT, WELL, YEAH. BUT THEY DON'T NEED A MAJOR GYM, LIKE A YOGA SHOP OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WHICH I GOT WOULD FALL IN THAT CATEGORY. YEAH. WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER MAJOR GYM DOWNTOWN. I DON'T WANNA CRUSH CRUNK. WE'VE ALREADY GOT WHATEVER THE HELL IT IS. K GOT TWO OF'EM IN TOWN NOW. OKAY. SO, SO CURRENTLY IT'S LIMITED TO THE 15,000. YOU WOULD LIKE TO RESTRICT IT FURTHER? FURTHER. THREE. OKAY. THREE, 3000 IS A GOOD NUMBER. THAT'S A GREAT NUMBER. AND THAT'S ONLY IN THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT? OR IS THAT OVERALL? RIGHT. OKAY. OH, THAT WOULD BE GOOD. IF WE DID THAT BEFORE THEN WE WOULDN'T HAVE TWO BIG ONES. OKAY. OKAY. MOVED DOWN. WHAT ABOUT, UH, ALL OTHER ENTERTAINMENT INDOOR USES, NOT LISTED ABOVE. SHOULDN'T THAT BE LIKE, NOT REJECTED, BUT LIKE, COUNSEL APPROVED OR SOMETHING? BECAUSE I MEAN, THERE'S A WHOLE LIST OF THINGS THAT WE'RE NOT COVERING HERE, AND I'D LOVE TO NOT BE ABLE TO SAY THE ANSWER IS NO. DON'T EVEN BRING IT BEFORE US. YEAH, I, I UNDERSTAND. UM, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE MORE USES THAT ARE KIND OF EXPANDED IN THESE OTHER TABLES VERSUS, UH, THE CONSOLIDATED USE TABLE. I MEAN, I'M GONNA SAY SOMETHING CRAZY. WHAT IF SOMEBODY DECIDES TO OPEN UP A AX THROWING, I WAS JUST THINKING THAT FACILITY. YEAH. THAT IT IS. I MEAN, YOU WON'T GET ME IN THERE. I'LL HURT MYSELF, BUT I MEAN, LET'S JUST, OKAY. THAT'S NOT LISTED IN HERE. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE IT COULD BE. IT IT WAS UNDER END DOOR AX THROWING. YEAH, IT WAS UNDER END DOOR. MM-HMM . . VERY VIRTUAL. ALL OTHER ENTERTAINMENT IS ITEM. YEP. OKAY. GO BACK. WHERE ARE YOU SEEING THAT AT? WELL, ALL OTHER ENTERTAINMENT IS ALREADY NOT ALLOWED. SO TAKING ONE DOWN. INDOOR RRY BAR TAVERNS. BILLIARDS HAVE A BOWLING ALLEY. , UH, INDOOR ENTERTAINMENT, RECREATIONAL USE TO INDOOR ENTERTAINMENT. AX IS FUN. YOU, YOU GET DRINKING. HOLY COW. IT REALLY DOES SAY AXTON. I WAS THOUGHT YOU WERE MESSING WITH ME. . RIGHT? . OKAY. OKAY. LET'S MOVE BACK TO THE, UH, LITTLE CIRCLE DEALS. 'CAUSE I WANNA SEE WHAT THE OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT DOWNTOWN ALL OTHER, BUT YOU NOT SAYING THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION OR THEN I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION FOR ALL. THERE'S THIS ONE. I CAN SEE INDOORS, I CAN SEE NECESSARILY [02:15:01] OUTDOORS THE, THE SEXUAL ENTERTAINMENT OUT OF THAT LIST. YEAH. 'CAUSE IN REALITY THAT THERE'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT, WE HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC ONE THAT SAYS SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESSES IS NOT ALLOWED. RIGHT. ARE WE GONNA COMPLIMENT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE A SECTION ORIENTED BUSINESS THERE. HERE I AS PART OF THAT INDOOR ENTERTAINMENT. YEAH. NO, STRIKE IT OUT. STRIKE IT OUT. YEAH. YEP. BECAUSE, AND IT'S A CONFLICT ANYWAY, BECAUSE IT SAYS QUITE CLEARLY ON THE TABLE. BUT YOU ALREADY SAID THIS HOLDS PRECEDENT OVER THE TABLE. CORRECT. TRAVIS? THE TEXT HOLDS PRECEDENT. YES, SIR. THAT'S RIGHT. AND THIS IS A TABLE AS WELL. MM-HMM . BUT I WOULD SAY STRIKE THAT ONE OUT. AND THESE ALL HAVE A 15,000 SQUARE FOOT. RIGHT. AND THE, SO WE'RE IN THIS ONE. I'D LIKE TO PUT EVERYTHING DOWN TO 3000. AND THEN IF IT, YEAH, I TAKE THAT BACK. WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT FOR THE RESTRICTION WAS ONLY FOR A GYM. IF WE WANTED TO DO IT FOR ALL THIS CATEGORY OF ALL. YEP. DON'T, WE CAN DO THAT TOO. I DON'T THINK, GUYS, I FEEL LIKE PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. YEAH. I'D ALMOST HAVE THE, JUST LIKE WE DID FOR THE GYM, HAVE HOW YOU HAVE A HALF CIRCLE OR FOR APPROVALS FOR APPROVAL. YEP. YEP. ABOVE A CERTAIN POINT. YEAH. MAKES SENSE. GOOD. NOT OPPOSED, BUT, BUT YES, I'D LIKE TO, I'D LIKE TO SUGGEST LIMITING IT TO THE 3000 LIMIT. DO YOU ENVISION ANYTHING BIGGER THAN 3000 IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA? NOT WHAT I, I WAS JUST SEEING ON THERE IN THAT LIST WOULD BE LIKE A BOWLING HOUSE, , AND THEN IT, THEY COULD COME IN FRONT OF COUNCIL. THEY CAN'T NECESSARILY DO IT WITHOUT EXTRA APPROVAL OR, YES. YEAH. SAY A BOWLING ALLEY WOULD BE SOMETHING WOULD TAKE A LOT OF, A LOT OF IMPACT TO GET THAT IN. YEAH. SO IT, YEAH. IF YOU, IF YOU LABEL IT THREE GRAND, YOU KNOW, 3000 SQUARE FOOT AND YOU TO HAVE A GOING ON THAT. HUH? DID WE HAVE A DICKINSON? YEAH. RIGHT THERE AT THE CORNER OF FIVE 17. AND, UH, WHERE THE QT GOING? THE QT. QT. YEAH. USED TO BE RIGHT THERE. I KNOW THAT. YEAH. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THAT WAS THE, UH, ALWAYS SEEN A TRAILER AND, UH, THE A, THAT'S WHERE THE OLD HOTEL WAS USED TO HAVE OUR NEIGHBORHOOD BROTHEL. , EL RANCHO. EL RANCHO. EL RANCHO. YEAH. ONE OF THE LAST PLACES WHERE ONE OF THOSE GIRLS WERE SEEING BEFORE. OH, SHE NEEDED KILLING. OKAY. UM, DO WE HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS? I MEAN, DO WE, DO WE WANT TO PUT A DAMNIT THE, UH, FOR ALL OTHER ENTERTAINMENT INDOOR USES, NOT LISTED ABOVE? DO WE WANNA PUT THAT AS LIKE A, A BLACK CIRCLE TO WHERE WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT BASICALLY, IF YOU'RE NOT ON THE LIST, DON'T COME TALK TO US. IT'S SAYING YES, YOU HAVE TO TALK TO COUNCIL. IF IT'S NOT ON THE LIST, HALF BLACK CIRCLE, FULL CIRCLE IS THEY CAN WIDE OPEN. WE WANT THE BLACK CIRCLE MEANS THEY HAVE TO GET PERMISSION FROM COUNCIL. THAT'S GOOD. RIGHT NOW YOU'RE SAYING NO TO ALL OF IT. YEAH. I, I DON'T WANT TO LIMIT US ON THAT REGARD. 'CAUSE SOMEBODY'S GONNA COME UP WITH SOMETHING WE CAN NEVER IMAGINE. MM-HMM . SO LET TICKLE BALL COULD BE EXCELLENT. SO LET'S, LET'S BE CLEAR. WE'RE GOING BACK TO THE MEDICAL OFFICES AND DENTAL. WE WANTED THAT TO BE, UH, LIMITED USE FOR STAFF APPROVES IT AS LONG AS IT'S SMALLER THAN 3000 SQUARE FEET. RIGHT. OKAY. ACTUALLY, I DON'T THINK WE WERE SAYING STAFF APPROVE IT. IF IT'S UNDER 3000 FEET FOR A MEDICAL, IT RUNS. BUT ANYTHING OVER THAT IS WHAT? THAT'S THE CLINICS AND THE DENTIST'S OFFICES. BUT YOU WANT IT EITHER OR. UH, IF IT, IF IT'S UNDER THREE GRAND, I MEAN 3000 SQUARE SQUARE FEET, WE CAN APPROVE IT. AND IF IT'S NOT, THEN IT NEEDS TO GO TO COUNCIL. I WANT YOU GUYS TO BE ABLE TO APPROVE IT. OKAY. OKAY. SO AS IT SITS, THAT'S GOOD. BUT THE ENTERTAINMENT USES, THEY WANT, Y'ALL WANT TO GO TO COUNCIL? YES. GOT IT. 'CAUSE IT KIND OF ALLOWS THEM TO DICTATE WHICH, WHICH, AND WHAT'S GOING, WHAT GOES IN. UNDERSTOOD. I FEEL PRETTY SAFE WITH DOCTORS AND DENTISTS MOST OF THE TIMES. WELL, LET ME CLARIFY THAT. DEPENDS WHICH THE, FOR ALL RIGHT. SO WE'RE INTO ENTERTAINMENT. OUTDOOR AMPHITHEATER. I, I ENTERTAINMENT. I WANNA SAY YES, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I'M GOING, FIRST OF ALL, WHERE THE HELL WOULD WE, THEY PUT ONE. AND YOU DEFINITELY NEED TO GET CITY COUNCIL'S APPROVAL ON SOMETHING LIKE AN AMPHITHEATER. WELL, IN OUR DOWNTOWN AREA, YOU KNOW, I COULD ENVISION, NOT AN AMPHITHEATER, BUT I COULD ENVISION LIKE, UM, THERE ARE A LOT OF POPUP TYPE ENTERTAINMENTS THAT CAN HAPPEN. YOU KNOW, THAT THERE'S A WHOLE GROUP OF THAT THAT COULD, COULD, YOU KNOW, COME INTO A CERTAIN SPACE. I COULD SEE, I COULD ENVISION, [02:20:01] UH, DIFFERENT GROUPS COMING EVERY WEEKEND IN A CERTAIN SPACE THAT'S DESIGNATED FOR THAT IN OUTDOORS, WHICH WOULD BE GREAT. YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE THINK LIKE OFF OF A FIVE 18 LAKE CITY WHERE THEY HAVE YEAH, EXACTLY. THE HOLIDAY. YEAH. KIND OF. UM, HOW FUN WOULD THAT BE, YOU KNOW? YEAH. YEAH. KEEPING KEEP IN MIND ACROSS THE STREET TOO, YOU KNOW, WE HAD TO PROPOSE PICNIC GROUNDS FOR A WHILE. THAT USED KIND OF FITS IN WITH PIT GROUNDS. WHETHER THAT PROJECT COMES BACK OR NOT, YOU KNOW, A SIMILAR USE COULD BE, UH, DOWN THE PIPELINE FOR THAT PROPERTY ALLOWED. YEAH, EXACTLY. SO, BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S WIDE OPEN. NO, RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT. IT'S NOT ALLOWED. NO, IT'S NOT ALLOWED. NO, NO. IT IS WIDE OPEN. NO, IT'S NOT. IT IS. AMPHITHEATER IS ALLOWED IN DOWNTOWN. WHERE WHERE DOES AMPHITHEATER WAIT, WHERE ARE YOU SAYING WHERETHE? OH, I'M NOT TALKING AMPHITHEATER. YEAH. NO, WE DON'T NEED AN AMPUTATE. WHICH ONE ARE WE TALKING ALL OTHER, I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING OUTDOOR. ALL OTHER ENTERTAINMENT. OUTDOOR AMPHITHEATER IS CURRENTLY NO, NO REQUIREMENTS OTHER THAN, UH, STAFF APPROVAL. OH, WELL NO. THAT, NO, IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE STAFF APPROVAL. JUST NO REQUIREMENTS. YEAH. IT'S ALLOWED, YOU HAVE TWO SEPARATE DEALS FOR OUTDOOR, ONE AMPHITHEATER WIDE OPEN, AND THEN NO USE FOR OTHER OUTDOOR, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS HOW IT CLEARLY SET UP. SO, 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW YOUR DOWNTOWN HAS A BOAT RAMP. CORRECT. AND YOU CAN'T HAVE A BLACK CIRCLE. YOU CAN'T USE IT, BUT IT'S THERE. YEAH. . SO MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE CIRCLE. OKAY, MY, SO Y'ALL WANNA DO A, A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. COUNCIL APPROVES THE OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT USES BECAUSE, UH, YEAH. SO FAR, LIKE OUTDOORS, WE PULL UP THAT, UH, YEAH, MY SUGGESTION BE TO GET RID OF THE AMPHITHEATER DEAL. THAT'S SILLY. ANYWAY, DOWNTOWN IT, IT ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE A, LIKE A PERMANENT STAGE. LIKE SAY IF YOU WANT. OH, I SEE. OKAY. YEAH. WELL THEN THAT NEEDS TO GO IN FRONT OF COUNCIL. IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO YEAH. PICKLE BALLS IN THERE. GOTCHA. OKAY. GOOD POINT. AND IN LINE WITH THIS TOO, AS I'M LOOKING THROUGH THIS, FARMER'S MARKET, OPEN AIR, PERMANENT MM-HMM . I MEAN, IS THAT SOMETHING WE WANT TO, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT FALLS IN THE CATEGORY OF, OF NO RE NO REQUIREMENTS. DO WE WANT, I MEAN, I'M THINKING SPECIFICALLY ACROSS THE STREET, THAT OPEN AREA, IF SOMEBODY BUYS THAT UP AND SETS UP A FARMER'S MARKET, THERE IT IS. WE STILL HAVE THAT OTHER, UH, THE VENDOR PERMITS AND ALL THAT. NO, NO. IF THEY BUY THE PROPERTY, THEY CAN SET UP A FARMER'S MARKET AND OPERATE IT. NOT NOW. 'CAUSE WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO, RIGHT NOW THAT WHOLE B CAN'T EVEN BE PART OF IT. YEAH. IT, IT CAN. NO, I WAS LOOKING AT OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT, RECREATIONAL USE CATEGORY, PRIMARY USES, NO FARMER'S MARKET. NO, LOOK AT IT'S DASH. IT'S NOW AND IT'S A DASH. AND IT CAN'T, SO YES, THERE'S THE KIND OF STUFF YOU'RE WANTING AHEAD. EXACTLY. SO WE WANT IT TO BE ESSENTIALLY, IT'S SUCH A BIG LIST. COUNCIL, HAVE A COUNCIL REVIEW. YEAH. OKAY, LET'S DO COUNCIL. AND THE SAME THING WITH AMPHITHEATER NOW HAS GOT THE WIDE OPEN AND THAT'S THE ONE THAT WE NEED TO HAVE COUNCIL. OKAY. YEAH. BECAUSE I SAID RIGHT NOW THAT EVERYTHING, YOU CAN EITHER STRIKE IT FROM THE TABLE AND LEAVE IT HERE OR STRIKE IT FROM HERE AND LEAVE IT ON THE TABLE. AND TO REITERATE THOUGH YEAH. SCRATCH, SCRATCH IT AS A INDIVIDUAL DEAL. OKAY. AND, AND LEAVE IT IN THIS, KEEP IN MIND LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, AND I KNOW YOU SAID IT IS A TABLE, BUT IT'S STILL, THIS IS MORE OF A PRECEDENT THAN THE, THE OTHER TABLE HERE, THE DAMMIT, THE CONSOLIDATED USE TABLE. THERE YOU GO. AND SO I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT OTHER TABLE THAT HAS THESE SPECIFIC ITEMS LISTED MM-HMM . OKAY. 'CAUSE CONSOLIDATED USE TABLE'S FURTHER DOWN THE PIPE FOR SURE. BUT THE ONE WITH THE SPECIFICS IN THERE, THAT IS GOING TO BE MORE OF, OF THE LAW THAN THE OTHER WAY AROUND. IT WAS WRITTEN IF YOU WOULD GO BACK TO THE OTHER ONE. YEAH. BUT ON THIS TABLE REMOVING SURE. IT'S ALREADY COVERED UNDER YOUR OTHER TABLE. YES, SIR. YOU JUST WON'T HAVE A CYNTHIA WOODS COME IN . RIGHT. SO, AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, THIS IS THE, UH, TABLE 18 11 42 IS THE ONE THAT WE NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO. SO 18, 11 42, LET'S, WHEN YOU GO TO THE CIRCLE DEAL, LET'S HAVE THAT, UH, AT AN IMPROVE LEVEL. OKAY. OKAY. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? UH, SO FOR, YOU WANNA STILL WANNA KEEP THIS ONE SEPARATE AND KEEP THIS ONE SEPARATE, BUT ADD CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT FOR ENTERTAINMENT? YES. OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT AND, AND GET RID OF AMPHITHEATER AS A SEPARATE INDIC IN, IN, [02:25:01] IN, RIGHT? YEAH. ARE YOU GUYS WITH ME ON THAT? NO. MR. OKAY. I, I CAN'T IMAGINE LIVING NEXT DOOR TO, OR EVEN NEAR AN AMPHITHEATER WHERE THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, BIG CONCERTS OR, YEAH. OKAY. ALRIGHT. DOWN TO THE NEXT ONE THEN. DO WE DO THAT? YES. ALRIGHT, SO NOW WE'RE AT, UH, WHERE ARE WE? BANKS AND CREDIT UNIONS OFFICES, BANKS AND CREDIT UNIONS. MM-HMM . I THINK IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING THAT WE ALREADY HAVE THEM. SO I THINK THAT ONE'S A ZERO. YEAH. AND, AND WHY WOULD WE NOT WANT THEM? RIGHT? RIGHT. I CAN SEE THE CASH CHECK. CASH AND PAYDAY LOANS. CHECK CASHING. NO, I CAN SEE THAT NOT BEING THERE. YOUR BANKS TODAY ARE NOT ELLE BUILDINGS ANYMORE? NO. THEY'VE DOWNSIZED THE BANKS STATE LOT. YEAH. BUT AT THE END, IT'S KIND OF WHAT WE WERE SAYING ABOUT HAVING THE CITY HALL HERE. WHY WOULD WE AUTOMATICALLY MAKE IT NON-CONFORMING WHEN WE HAVE THE OPTION OF MAKING IT RIGHT. ESPECIALLY WHEN WE HAVE A BANK SITTING. YEAH, IT'S ALREADY THERE. THE ANSWER TO THAT, AND, AND WHETHER IT MAKES SENSE OR NOT, IS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS DESIGNED NO FUTURE. THIS IS DESIGNED IN CONFORMANCE WITH THE FUTURE LAND USE MAPS. SO WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT THE USE IS TODAY. THEY'RE SAYING THE 2045 PLAN IS THAT MAYBE THEY DON'T WANT THAT DEVELOPMENT THERE IN, IN 15, 20 YEARS. YOU KNOW, I STILL DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A BANK ANYMORE THAN I DO A DENTIST OFFICE. NO DOUBT. IF THEY HAVE A LITTLE SATELLITE OFFICE FOR SOMEBODY TO COME IN AND TAKE CARE OF THINGS, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT. SO IT COULD FOLLOW THAT SAME SIZE OF IT. WITH THE SAME SIZE. I THINK WE'VE NOW APPLIED THE 3000 BASICALLY TO EVERYTHING. IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE, WE APPLIED IT TO PULLING WISE TO MEDICAL OFFICES AND DENTAL OFFICES AND ALL OTHER, UH, INDOOR ENTERTAINMENT USES. YEAH. OKAY. UM, PARKING STANDALONE USES. WOULD YOU PULL THAT UP FOR THE DESCRIPTOR THERE? BY THE WAY? IN 15 MINUTES THE FOOD WILL BE HERE, Y'ALL. GREAT. SOUNDS GREAT. BUT WHERE, UH, SORRY, LEMME GO BACK. SORRY. YEAH, JUST, JUST, JUST LITTLE BLURB. YOU DON'T NEED TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE 18, 18 14 C. SO THIS IS THE STANDARDS. IF YOU WANTED TO, TO MAKE A STANDALONE PARKING, WHY DO WE WANNA TAKE IT DOWNTOWN? WELL, 'CAUSE YOU GOTTA HAVE SOME, YOU HAVE TO HAVE PARKING. YEAH, YOU HAVE TO. IF YOU'RE WALKING THERE, YOU STILL HAVE HAVE A PLACE TO BE ABLE TO PARK. IF YOU OWN DOWNTOWN LAND AND YOU CAN EARN MONEY FOR PARKING. MM-HMM . THAT'S WHAT YOU WOULD WANT. BECAUSE NOW YOU GOT MORE PEOPLE COMING DOWNTOWN TO GO TO THE RESTAURANTS. SO I THINK LIKE KEA, ALL THE DOWNTOWN PARKING, RIGHT. BUT SINCE PARKING FOR THE PERSON WHO HAS THE PARKING IS VERY LUCRATIVE. WE DON'T, WE WANNA CONTROL WHERE THAT GOES AS A CITY, BECAUSE YES, WE NEED PARKING. BUT IF YOU LEFT IT WIDE OPEN, JUST LIKE, UH, STORAGE SHEDS, I MEAN THEY'RE COST EFFECTIVE FOR THE OWNER. AND THAT'S, SO GOING BACK TO THAT, WHAT DO YOU HAVE WIDE OPEN RIGHT NOW? I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU HAVE A LIMITED USE ON IT. THAT IT COMES IN FRONT OF SOMEBODY. UH, NO. YOU JUST CAN'T HAVE, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT OPEN. TELL ME, I HAVE AN EMPTY LOT AND I CAN'T EARN MONEY BY LET YES. COME IN, COME, COME IN FRONT. I DON'T, I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT. HOW WOULD YOU LIMIT IT? BECAUSE HOW MANY EMPTY LOTS DO WE HAVE DOWNTOWN? QUITE A FEW. THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN IS PEOPLE NEED A PLACE FOR PARK IF THEY GO TO TOWN. YOU CAN'T, I MEAN, I CAN UNDERSTAND YOU TELLING ME WHAT I CAN BUILD ON IT, BUT YOU'RE TELLING ME I CAN'T HAVE A, I'M NOT SAYING THAT. WHAT I'M, WELL THAT'S WHY YOU'RE HAVING THEM COME IN IS SO YOU CAN TELL THEM NO, YOU NO, WE'RE, BECAUSE YOU WANT TO CONTROL IT. THAT MEANS YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO ACTUALLY SAY NO TO IT. OF COURSE YOU DO RIGHT THEN. BUT THEN SO, BUT DE ON THIS ONE HERE, CUT AND DRY IT, IT IS GONNA GO STAFF. THE ZEROS MEANS STAFF HAS TO APPROVE IT. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO GO TO CAMP. WELL, THEY DON'T GET TO JUST PUT ONE UP. THEY STILL GOTTA GET, THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS, RIGHT. THERE'S ZONING REQUIREMENTS. UH, BUT IT'S JUST THE BASIC. SO IF WE HAVE AN ORDINANCE, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING SPECIFIC TO IT. IS THERE A PERMITTING REQUIREMENT ON SOMETHING LIKE THAT? YEAH, THEY WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE TO GET A PERMIT. THEY'D HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, BUT IT'S WIDE OPEN, RIGHT? NO, THERE'S RULES. SO THE, THE USE IS ALLOWED WIDE OPEN. YES, MA'AM. YEAH. BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE RULES. NO, OF COURSE. BUT, AND THEY HAVE TO GET WITH, THEY HAVE TO COMPLY WITH LANDSCAPING AND PARKING LOT SIZE AND, AND, AND EVERYTHING ELSE. THIS BASICALLY SAYS THEY HAVE TO GO TO STAFF AND GET A PERMIT TO OPERATE PARKING. MM-HMM. AND THEY HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE RULES. I UNDERSTAND THAT. I DON'T SEE WHERE THEY NEED TO GO IN FRONT OF COUNCIL OR ANYBODY [02:30:01] ELSE TO DEBATE. JUST AS HE SAID, I'VE GOT AN EMPTY LOT HERE. I CAN MAKE SURE I'VE GOT AN ENTRY, I CAN MAKE SURE I GOT FRICKING LANDSCAPING. YEAH. AND THEN WE JUST MOVE ON. I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S VERY INTRUSIVE IN MY OPINION. AND I THINK EVEN, WELL, IF I HAVE AN EMPTY LOT AND I'M PAYING TAXES ON IT, BUT I'M NOT READY TO SELL IT OR BUILD ON IT. BUT YOU'RE TELLING ME I HAVE TO GO SEEK YOUR APPROVAL TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO PARK ON IT. IT, IT SEEMS A LITTLE MORE OVERSTRETCHING THAN I I THINK TO TOUCH ON, ON MR. BRAGG'S ORIGINAL STATEMENT ABOUT A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, YOU KNOW, WANTING US FOR THE APPLICANT TO COME IN SO THE COUNSEL COULD TELL 'EM NO, WHETHER THAT'S TRUE OR NOT. UH, I THINK IN, IN THE DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT, THAT'S THE WAY THEY TAKE IT. A LOT OF TIMES IF, IF SOMEONE COMES IN AND APPROACHES ME AND SAYS, HEY, I HAVE THIS PROPERTY AND I WANNA DO THIS DEVELOPMENT, AND I HAVE TO TELL THEM EXTRA STANDARDS AND EXTRA TIMELINE THAT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO THROUGH, UH, A LOT OF TIMES THEY JUST DROP IT AND THEY WALK OUT. NO, I, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT. AND I DON'T WANNA MAKE, ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT WE HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF SPACE DOWNTOWN. SO IF WE'RE WIDE OPENING TO PARKING AND YOU'VE GOT ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS, PRETTY SOON MAYBE YOUR PARKING WOULD BE OVERRUN AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ROOM FOR YOUR NICE DEALS. AND THE, AND THE REASONS FOR HAVING THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GONNA BE ECONOMY THAT DETERMINES THAT. YEAH. YEAH. IF, IF THERE'S NO REASON FOR PEOPLE TO GO DOWNTOWN, MY PARKING LOT'S GONNA SIT IN. SO I MIGHT BUILD SOMETHING ON IT ALL. ALL RIGHT. ALRIGHT. I GOT YOU. OKAY. LET IT BE WIDE OPEN. THAT'S FINE. I GOT YOU. HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS. I GOT YOU. I GOT YOU. LET'S GO. THE MAN'S THERE. WOULD YOU LIKE A GINGER MIN? YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE TO PARK LOT IF THERE'S NOTHING. PARK ON IT. OKAY. WIND OPEN. MOVING ON. I DON'T HAVE ANY, THERE'S DEMAND MOVING ON. OH, CONVENIENCE STORE. ALL FOOD TRUCK COURT. I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH THAT ONE. RESTAURANTS DRIVE THROUGHS. ALL OTHER RESTAURANT USES BOTH. SO WHY IS OUR X-RAY DEAL ON THAT ONE? RESTAURANT DRIVE THROUGH, DRIVE THROUGH RESTAURANTS, I WOULD ASSUME, BECAUSE GENERALLY THOSE ARE GONNA BE, AND I'M MAKING AN ASSUMPTION HERE, FAST FOOD TYPE RESTAURANTS. I, I MISSED THE INITIAL QUESTION. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NORMAL AND, UH, A DRIVE THROUGH RESTAURANT? OH, I GOT YOU. YEAH. WHETHER THEY HAVE A DRIVE THROUGH OR NOT. UH, MOSTLY PROBABLY THE PARKING WOULD BE THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE IN THAT, UH, NUMBER OF PARKING SPOTS REQUIRED. BUT ISN'T THAT A STANDARD REQUIREMENT? YEAH. REQUIRED THERE IS REQUIRED PARKING. IT'S PROBABLY JUST LESS FOR A DRIVE-THROUGH RESTAURANT VERSUS A STEAKHOUSE. SO THAT THE EXTRA, EXTRA REVIEW IS JUST PRIMARILY THE NATURE. IT'S OH, I, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE ASKING. I SEE WHAT YOU'RE ASKING. WHY DOES IT GO FOR REVIEW? THE, THE LIMITED USE STANDARDS FOR A DRIVE-THROUGH, UH, HAS TO DO WITH THE DISTANCE, EXCUSE ME, OF THE, OF THE DRIVE THROUGH SERVICE MINIMUM OF 30 FEET FROM A RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICT. BUT THAT WOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF, RIGHT? YOU DON'T NEED TO COME IN FRONT OF ANYBODY BECAUSE CORRECT. THAT, THAT WE, WE ENSURE THAT NEED OR THAT, UH, REQUIREMENTS MET ON A STAFF LEVEL AND IF IT IS YEAH, THEY YES MA'AM. SO YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE A RESTRICTION. I, I GET WHAT HE IS SAYING ON THAT ONE. MM-HMM . I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, YEAH, WHY DO I HAVE TO COME IN AND YEAH. GET APPROVAL? I AGREE WITH THAT. AS LONG AS I'M MEETING ALL THE REQUIREMENTS. WHY WOULD WE PUT THAT ON Y'ALL FOR AN EXTRA? BECAUSE, UH, I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S NOT LIKE A, THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME IN AND ASK US FOR THAT. IF, IF, SAY I'M A, I'M TRYING TO DEVELOP A RESTAURANT WITH A DRIVE THROUGH AND, AND I'M RESEARCHING IN THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE, UH, I WOULD SEE THAT, HEY, THIS, THIS, UH, LIMITED USE STANDARD APPLIES TO MY DEVELOPMENT. SO WHEN I CREATE IT, I NEED TO ENSURE THAT, THAT I MEET IT. AND SO WE BASICALLY, WE PICK UP ON THIS DURING PERMIT REVIEW, UH, PERMIT REVIEW OR A PRE-DEVELOPMENT MEETING. IF, IF SOMEONE COMES IN PRE-DEVELOPMENT, UH, AND WANTS TO GO THROUGH THESE STANDARDS, WE, THAT'S WHEN WE TELL 'EM AT THAT TIME. TRAVIS, IS THIS ALSO, I MEAN, GETTING TO THE MEAT AND POTATOES OF IT, IS THIS ALSO TO LIMIT FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS DOWNTOWN, WHICH ARE MORE PREDOMINANTLY DRIVE THROUGH TYPES, KEEPING MORE WALK AROUND RESTAURANT TYPES? IS THAT ONE NOT PERMITTED? WELL, IT'S SO, SO IT'S, IT'S ALLOWED IN THE ZONING DISTRICT. IT, THE INTENT OF THAT STANDARD IS JUST, IS TO PROHIBIT SOMEONE'S DRIVE THROUGH, YOU KNOW, SPEAKER FROM YELLING IN YOUR BACK WINDOW. SO IT'S ONLY, IT SAYS RESTAURANT COMMON, BUT IT MEANS IT'S FOR ONLY FOR DRIVE THROUGHS OR DRIVING. IF IT'S PRIMARILY A SIT DOWN, YOU'RE NOT GOING THROUGH THAT. I COULD HEAR YOU BETTER IF YOU'RE TALKING ON THE MIC. OH, SORRY. UH, MY QUESTION BECAUSE IT SAYS RESTAURANT COMMA, RIGHT? AND, BUT I'M GUESSING IT'S ONLY FOR DRIVE IN AND DRIVE THROUGH [02:35:01] RESTAURANTS THAT GO THROUGH THAT REVIEW WITH YOU ALL. I SEE. YES, SIR. YES, SIR. OKAY. YEAH, BECAUSE THAT STANDARD ONLY REFERS TO A DRIVE THROUGH LANE. SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE A DRIVE THROUGH LANE AT ALL, THEN IT'S NOT GONNA APPLY. OKAY. OR SO GO BACK. IT SAYS GO BACK TO THE, THE ZERO. SO RESTAURANT, OKAY. DRIVE IN OR DRIVE THROUGH. NO, GO TO ALL OTHER RESTAURANT. AND THIS ONE IS JUST A RESTAURANT. OKAY. SO YOU'RE USING THAT JUST TO, AS A WAY TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE FOLLOWING ALL THE REQUIREMENTS AND SUCH. OKAY. SO, HEY TRAVIS? YES MA'AM. SO WHAT, WHAT I GET WHAT ROBERT'S SAYING, THE RESTAURANT PART OF THAT, WHERE IT SAYS RESTAURANTS, YOU CAN GET RID OF THAT FIRST DEAL AND THEN JUST SAY, DRIVE THROUGH AND DRIVE IN HAS TO HAVE THE EXTRA STEP. BUT ALL OTHER REST RESTAURANTS DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THAT STEP. SEE? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? SURE. SO YOU WOULD THINK RESTAURANT WOULD BE, AND HAVE A KIND OF, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT, KEITH. AN EXPLANATION OF WHAT THE RESTAURANT IS LIKE, SIT DOWN, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. BECAUSE THAT WHOLE, THAT WHOLE CATEGORY FOR ALL FOUR OF THOSE, OR HOWEVER MANY IS, IS RESTAURANTS. AND THEN IT SAYS RESTAURANTS AGAIN. BUT YOU'RE SAYING IT'S ONLY FOR DRIVE IN OR DRIVE THROUGH. YEAH. SO GET WHAT TO THE RESTAURANT COMPANY, MAKE THE TABLE LOOK EASIER. MAYBE STRIKE RESTAURANTS LIKE YOU'RE SAYING OUT OF THAT. YEAH. SO IT'S NOT CONFUSING. IT'S 'CAUSE YOU CAN FALL UNDER ONE AND NOT THE OTHER. SO GO AHEAD. YOU KNOW, FIVE YEARS FROM NOW SOMEBODY LOOKS AT THIS, WE ALL UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE SAYING. BUT IF SOMEBODY COMES IN AND LOOKS AT THIS AND GOES DRIVE THROUGH DRIVE, TRAVIS IS STILL GONNA BE HERE. I SHALL . WELL, YEAH, BUT GET RID OF THE COMMA THEN. OKAY. RESTAURANT DRIVE THROUGH. IT'S, IT'S A SUBCATEGORY OF RESTAURANTS ALREADY ON THAT TABLE. THAT'S WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. I UNDERSTAND THAT. THAT'S, YEAH. GET RID OF THE, GET RID OF THE COMMENT. YEAH, BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK YOU WANNA STRIKE 20 YEARS FROM NOW. SOMEBODY WILL GO, WHAT IS A DRIVE THROUGH ? IT'S A, IT'S A SUBCATEGORY OF RESTAURANTS ON THE TABLE ALREADY. YEAH'S CLEAR IF YOU GET RID OF THE COMMA. WE HAD A BOWLING ALLEY WORK. I DIDN'T KNOW WE HAD A BOWLING ALLEY. DID YOU KNOW WE HAD A, AFTER THE BOWL ALLEY, IT WAS A DOWN, UH, COUNTRY WESTERN DANCE HALL. THERE YOU GO. THERE'S NO WAY. IT WAS EL RANCHO AND THAT WAS BAD ENOUGH. WELL THAT WAS, THAT WAS ALL AFTER. YEAH. . ALRIGHT. DO WE WANNA WRAP UP, UH, THIS DOWNTOWN AND THEN GET SOMETHING TO EAT OR? I THINK WE'RE ALMOST DONE WITH IT, AREN'T WE? YEAH. ISH. SO, SO TRAVIS, DO YOU SEE IT? I'M SAYING GET RID OF THE THIS COMMA? YEAH, JUST THE COMMA. 'CAUSE IT'S A RESTAURANT. OKAY. YEAH, YEAH. DRIVE THROUGH RESTAURANT OR DRIVE. SO WE'RE IT'S A RESTAURANT AND THEN YOU HAVE A DRIVE. DRIVE IN. YEAH. SO WE'RE KEEPING THAT SEPARATE USE. JUST DELETING THE COLUMN. YEAH. UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . OKAY, LET'S GO THROUGH THE REST OF DOWNTOWN. YOU'RE VERY RIGHT ON THAT. SO WE CAN STAY FOCUSED. CAN YOU GO UP ON THE DOWNTOWN OR DOWN? NO, I'M SORRY. GO DOWN. YEAH, KEEP GOING. RETAIL. WE ESCAPE RETAIL. YEAH. YOU'LL SKIP RETAIL. YEAH. THE RESTAURANTS AND RETAIL'S NEXT. NO BLUE MARKET. UH, I DIDN'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT ONE. YEAH, OKAY. WE DIDN'T EITHER. SO MOVE ON. HANG, HANG ON. WHAT'S ALL ABOUT? WE, WE DON'T HAVE 'EM. SO UNDERSTOOD THAT WE ARE, BUT THERE'S NOTHING ALLOWED. AND SO RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE AUTOZONE, YOU HAVE WALGREENS, YOU HAVE A LOT OF RETAIL IN DOWNTOWN RIGHT NOW. SO YOU SAYING THEY SHOULDN'T BE THERE. I THINK YOU NEED TO RE-LOOK AT MAYBE WHAT THE LAST ONE IS. IT SAYS ALL OF THE RETAIL NOT LISTED, RIGHT? SO THIS IS THE ONE THAT, THAT I ALREADY INTEND TO ADD THIS. WHEN WE BRING THIS FIRST TEXT AMENDMENT, UM, THAT WE'RE GONNA ADD THE ALLOWED BY RIGHT? THE OPEN CIRCLE TO RETAIL REPAIR, SALES AND SERVICE. UH, THAT'S WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT THE TEXT REFERS TO ALLOWING RETAIL IN THE DOWNTOWN ZONING DISTRICT. RIGHT. WOULD YOU PUSH ON RETAIL ALL OTHER AND SEE YEAH. RIGHT THERE. DON'T GO ANY FURTHER. OKAY. IS THERE A LIST? THERE IS. THIS ONE'S PRETTY LONG. WHICH ONE IS IT? ALL OF THEM. THIS IS THE ALL RETAIL REPAIR SALES AND SERVICES. 11 4 7. YOU GOT A CONVENIENCE STORE. YOU GOT HORIZONONE BAIT STORE. REALLY? WE GOT A FILLING STATIONS. YEAH. CONVENIENCE STORE, FLEA MARKET. WHERE DOES IT SAY FLEA MARKET? SCROLL UP. TRY ON THEIR FLOOR. RIGHT ABOVE FORESTS. YEP. OH. AND WE HAVE A CATEGORY THAT SAYS NO FLEA. FLEA MARKETS. YEAH. NO, I DON'T THINK SO. SO RIGHT. THIS, THIS IS THE COMPLETE LIST OF WHAT IS ALLOWED IN THAT ZONING DISTRICT. YEAH. 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO. [02:40:02] I AGREE WITH YOU WILLIAM. YEAH. WE HAVE A WHOLE YEAH. BREAKOUT OF THAT. I DON'T THINK IT NEEDS TO BE ON THAT LIST LIKE WE DO. WE REALLY DON'T WANT A VAPE SHOP THERE. I DON'T THINK. GO BACK. WELL, MAYBE WE DO DOWN BY THE BOAT RAMP. YEAH. NOW THAT BEING SAID THOUGH, YOU'RE STILL, THIS IS ONE THAT WE DO WANT TO HAVE THE 3000 SQUARE FOOT LIMITATION ON. 'CAUSE I WAS LOOKING AT IT RIGHT HERE. IT SAYS FURNITURE. WELL, I DON'T WANT STAR FURNITURE MOVING DOWNTOWN, BUT WHO'S TO SAY THAT WE DON'T HAVE A LITTLE 3000 FOOT SHOP WHERE A GUY'S SELLING HOMEMADE FURNITURE AND IT'S QUITE QUAINT. KINDA LIKE FREDERICKSBURG ISH. OKAY. I WOULDN'T SAY NO TO THAT, BUT I THINK THE, THE PUTTING THE SQUARE FOOTAGE LIMITATIONS CHANGES THE, THE DYNAMIC OF THE TYPE OF COMPANY THAT COULD BE IN THERE. THAT'S TRUE. AGAIN, RUGS, SHOES, UPHOLSTERY. WE DON'T WANT BIG COMPANIES DOWNTOWN, BUT, UH, WE DON'T WANNA LIMIT . ARE YOU GONNA DO THE FULL CIRCLE COUNCIL REVIEW IS WHAT YOU WERE DOING? OR, OR OPEN CIRCLE. AN EMPTY CIRCLE. THAT'S THAT'S ALLOWED BY, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DONE. YEAH. GO DOWN. YEAH. I MEAN, WE GOT LIQUOR STORE IN THERE TOO. NO, DO THAT AGAIN. I I WANTED TO GO BACK TO THIS ONE REAL QUICK. 'CAUSE I, I DID WANT TO NOTE, YOU KNOW, THIS VAPOR TOBACCO STORE IS NOT ALLOWED IN DOWNTOWN CI. I DON'T WANT THAT TO CHANGE. SO EVEN IF WE MADE IT IN THIS ONE, IT WOULD STILL NOT BE PERMITTED. GOOD. GOOD. THANK YOU FOR DOING IT. SAME WITH FLEA MARKET. OH, GOOD. RIGHT. SAME WITH PLEA. RIGHT? GOOD. RIGHT. 'CAUSE THOUGH THE TABLE THAT I'M SHOWING YOU IS ALL, EVERYTHING IS EVERYTHING THAT'S IN THAT DISTRICT. UH, BUT IT BREAKS IT OUT FURTHER IN THIS TABLE. OKAY. THANK YOU. YES, MA'AM. APPRECIATE THAT. SO IS A FLEA MARKET A RESALE SHOP? SAME THING. IT'D BE A SECONDHAND STORE. BECAUSE DON'T WE HAVE A RESALE SHOP BY THE RAILROAD TRACKS? OR DID THEY MOVE OUT? THEY'RE THEY'RE CURRENTLY THERE. I HAVE BUSINESS. ANY NO NONCONFORMING IN THERE SOMEWHERE? OOH, DO WE FIREWORKS? YOU HAVE FIREWORKS THERE. HELLO? YES. INTERESTING ENOUGH. UH, OUR, OUR ZONING ALLOWS FIREWORK SALES, BUT OUR ORDINANCE DOES NOT. YEAH, BECAUSE THAT IS, THAT IS IN THE WORKS WITH CITY COUNCIL, I BELIEVE. UM, WILL BE ALIGNED WITH PRECEDENT ON THAT. YEAH. SERVICE ORIENTED, BARBER BLUEPRINTING, DIRECTOR, TAX DERMIS, , URGENT CARE CENTER, VETERINARY SERVICES. YEAH. WE SPECIFICALLY SAY NO ON THE, UH, OTHER TABLE. BUT STILL, I THINK OTHER THAN, UH, I I DON'T LIKE THE VAPE AND THE LIQUOR STORE IN THEORY, BUT I, I THINK AGAIN, IF WE KEEP THE LIMITATION ON THE SIZE OF THE FACILITY, THAT KEEPS IT UNDER CONTROL OF WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT DO. THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE, THESE ARE ALLOWED, THESE ARE ALL ALLOWED. OH, THESE ARE ALLOWED, THESE ARE ALLOWED IN THAT RESIDENTIAL RETAIL, I MEAN RETAIL REPAIR EXCEPT FOR THE ONES THAT SAY IT, IT'S NOT ALLOWED. RIGHT. SO, SO EVEN THOUGH IT'S ALLOWED DA DA DA DA DA, THE FLEA MARKET, THE LIQUOR STORE, THE VAPE, THE VE THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED. THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED. YEAH. YEAH. SO THESE ARE LISTED IN THE TABLE THAT WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT. UH, HOWEVER, EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY LABELED IN THE TABLE WOULD BE ALLOWED IN THIS COLUMN RIGHT HERE. OKAY. SO WHAT DO YOU SAY? ARE WE GONNA, ARE WE GONNA OPEN THAT AS A WITHOUT RESTRICTION OR ARE WE GONNA BLACK CIRCLE? LET ME EXPLAIN IT. WHY DO YOU SAY NO TO VET? I'M JUST CURIOUS. IF WE WERE TO ALLOW THIS COLUMN BY RIGHT. WITH THE OPEN CIRCLE, THEN THE OH, BLACK CIRCLE. GO AHEAD. FINISH YOUR COMMENT WITH THE OPEN CIRCLE THEN EVERYTHING EXCEPT FOR THESE USES WOULD BE ALLOWED. THAT'S RIGHT. RIGHT. OKAY. BUT IF YOU GO BLACK CIRCLE, IT MEANS YOU'RE OPEN TO HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT IT. IT MEANS EVERYTHING ELSE HAS THE BLACK CIRCLE IS EVERYTHING HAS TO GO TO COUNCIL. THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. OUTSIDE OF WHAT'S ON THIS LIST RIGHT HERE, THE TABLE 11 4 7 11 4 7, EVERYTHING ON HERE IS ALREADY NATURALLY APPROVED BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT. NO. RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT. RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT AT ALL. IF WE MADE THIS A BLACK CIRCLE, EVERYTHING THAT'S IN THAT TABLE NOW WOULD HAVE TO GO TO COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL. USE IS NOT LISTED ABOVE AS OPPOSED TO, BUT RIGHT NOW NOTHING CAN BE IN DOWNTOWN EXCEPT FOR THE TEXT THAT SAYS YOU CAN HAVE RETAIL. CORRECT. TRAVIS ON DEFAULT THAT ALL OTHER RETAIL REPAIR SALES AND SERVICES USE IS NOT LISTED ABOVE ON TABLE 1147. IT SAYS USE IS NOT LISTED ABOVE. SO IT'S REFERRING TO I'M SAYING THESE, THESE COLUMN. NO, I'M SAYING WE PUT THAT AS NOT LISTED ON TABLE 1147 CAN BE BROUGHT BEFORE COUNCIL. 'CAUSE WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD LIST RIGHT HERE. I THINK A COUPLE OF 'EM NEED TO BE DELETED. BUT YOU KNOW THAT THAT GIVES EVERYBODY THE GREEN LIGHT. IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE WANTING TO DO A SERVICE THAT'S ON THIS LIST, YOU CAN JUST GET YOUR PERMIT AND GO TO WORK. BUT IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S NOT LISTED [02:45:01] ON THIS PERMIT, WE'RE NOT TELLING YOU CAN'T, BUT YOU WILL HAVE TO GO BEFORE COUNSEL. THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS. BUT THESE ONES UP HERE. YEAH, IT IS HOW IT WORKS. NOT HOW WORKS. NO, THESE ONES UP HERE ARE SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED. YEAH. THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS THOUGH, RIGHT? NO. NO. OKAY. IT IS HOW IT WORKS. NO. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? MM-HMM. RIGHT, RIGHT. NOW ALL THESE USES ARE PROHIBITED. ALL THE USES, I'LL SHOW YOU IN THIS TABLE, 1147 ARE CURRENTLY PROHIBITED, RIGHT? YES. THAT'S WHAT THAT SAYS IN FRONT OF ME. CORRECT. RIGHT. PROHIBITED. AND SO OUR OPTIONS ARE PROHIBITED. YES. OUR OPTIONS ARE ARE TO ALLOW THEM BY RIGHT. WHICH IS THE OPEN CIRCLE. ALLOW THEM WITH LIMITED USE STANDARDS, WHICH ARE APPROVAL BY ADMINISTRATION OR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT THAT HAS TO GO TO COUNCIL. IF THERE IS USES OUTSIDE OF WHAT'S IN THIS TABLE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T HAVE BOTH. YEAH. SO IF WE DID IT, UH, YOU KNOW, HALF A CIRCLE, THEN YOU WOULD, UH, YOU WOULD, UH, COME IN AND DO YOUR, YOUR, YOU KNOW. YEAH. IF WE DO THE HALF CIRCLE, WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO PROVIDE WHAT THAT REQUIREMENT THEY HAVE TO MEET IS OKAY. RIGHT. IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT, THEY CAN COME IN AND ASK ME IF THEY COMPLETE THEIR BUSINESS BECAUSE I LIKE THEM. IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE X, Y, Z THAT SAYS, IF YOU MEET THIS, I CAN ALLOW YOU TO BE THERE. AND, AND CAN WE GIVE YOU SOME RECOMMENDATIONS WITH REGARD TO THE HALF CIRCLE STUFF? ABSOLUTELY. YES MA'AM. OKAY. SO THE 3000 WE ALREADY DID. YES, MA'AM. OKAY. SO THEN OTHER THINGS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO, WE COULD, UH, GIVE TO YOU AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE THE, UM, PERMISSION GRANTED AT THAT POINT. RIGHT. AND, AND SOME EXAMPLES OF STANDARDS LIKE THAT ARE, UH, ADDITIONAL DISTANCE OF A BUFFER YARD. THERE'S, UM, I JUST HAD A GOOD ONE THAT BLANK. OH, DISTANCE REQUIREMENTS FROM SIMILAR USES OR, YOU KNOW, UH OKAY. STUFF LIKE THAT. I MEAN, THAT'S, YOU SEE GUYS? YEAH. TRAVIS, LEMME ASK YOU, ASK YOU A QUICK QUESTION, PLEASE. MM-HMM . I'M, I MAY BE VERY CONFUSED, WHICH I'M GETTING HUNGRY, SO IT'S VERY LIKELY I AM, YOU'RE HUNGRY. I'M HEADED THERE. TABLE 18 DASH 11.4 DASH SEVEN. AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THESE ARE APPROVED SERVICES THAT CAN BE PERFORMED IN THE DOWNTOWN RETAIL AREA. NO. NO. THESE ARE ALL SPECIFICALLY REJECTED. THESE ARE NOT ALLOWED IS WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME. RIGHT. AT THIS POINT, AT, AT THIS TIME, THIS, WHAT THIS TABLE SHOWS IS USES THAT FIT INTO THE CATEGORY OF RETAIL REPAIR, SALES AND SERVICES, UH, NOT NECESSARILY USES THAT ARE, ARE PERMITTED. THIS IS JUST THE OPTIONS. YEAH. FOR, FOR RETAIL. BUT THEN YOU GO TO THE CIRCLES AND IT TELLS YOU THAT THAT, RIGHT. AS OF THIS MOMENT, IT'S NOT PERMITTED. WHY WOULDN'T WE HAVE? WELL, WE WANT TO, HOLD ON, LET ME FINISH. WHY WOULDN'T WE HAVE A LIST SIMILAR TO THAT OTHER ONE WHERE IT SAYS THESE ARE ALL RETAIL REPAIR SALES SERVICES THAT ARE NATURALLY APPROVED AND THEN JUST HAVE IT TO WHERE ALL THEY GOTTA DO IS GET A PERMIT FROM YOU AND GO TO WORK. I, RIGHT NOW I, THAT THAT IS WHAT THIS IS. BUT TO THE WAY TO ACHIEVE THAT IS TO ADD THIS USE IN THE ZONING DISTRICT. YEAH. OKAY. SO TIM WOULD SUGGEST, SPECIFICALLY REFERENCE TO ON THAT TABLE MM-HMM . OKAY. I WOULD SUGGEST WE DO IT WITH THE HALF CIRCLE SO THAT YOU WOULD DO IT AND THEN COME UP WITH SOME MORE CONDITIONS. WELL, I, I'M GONNA BACK UP AGAIN. WE, WE STILL DON'T NEED TO BECOME OVERBURDENSOME ON THIS. I'M LOOKING AT THIS AND I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA READ IT IN MY, THE WAY I'M READING IT, NOT WHAT'S WRITTEN ALL OTHER RETAIL REPAIR SALES AND SERVICES USES AS LISTED ON TABLE, UM, 11, 8, 4, 7, WHATEVER IT WAS, SHOULD BE A CIRCLE. AND THEN WE SHOULD ADDRESS THAT TABLE AND AGAIN, TAKE OUT THE ONES WE DON'T LIKE. FAIR. BUT BOTTOM LINE, WE PROVIDE THEM WITH A LIST OF, OF SERVICES THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO BEG PERMISSION FOR A LARGE LIST, IN MY OPINION. WELL, I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO WITH THAT. WHAT I'M SUGGESTING IS THAT, THAT WE LOOK AT STANDARDS WITHIN THAT. SO THE STANDARD OF 3000 SQUARE FEET IS ONE OF THE STANDARDS. THE OTHER STANDARDS THAT HE JUST INDICATED MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. A BUFFER NOT ALLOWING THINGS TO, TO COME TO, TO, OF THE SAME THING TO COME SIDE BY SIDE AND SOME OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS THAT MAKE SENSE FROM A STAFF POINT OF VIEW. AND YOU COULD ALSO BREAK IT OUT TO HOW YOU HAVE THE VAPE SHOPS. YOU CAN HAVE IT BROKEN OUT TO REPAIR ORIENTED AND THEN SALES ORIENTED OR THAT WAY YOU CAN, 'CAUSE THERE'S CERTAIN ONE OF THESE, THERE'S CERTAIN KIND OF SUBSET SUBCATEGORIES IN HERE THAT YOU DON'T ESSENTIALLY WANT. DO YOU WANT A TAXIDERMY PLACE INSIDE DOWNTOWN? DO YOU WANT, TECHNICALLY THE GRANTED LIQUOR STORE AND FLEA MARKET ARE KIND OF ALREADY STRUCK OUT. BUT SOME OF THOSE THINGS YOU DON'T WANT IN YOUR DOWNTOWN, BUT YOU CAN HAVE SOMEWHERE ELSE. RIGHT. SO LIKE, IF YOU WANT TO IN YOUR, [02:50:01] THE, UM, IT'S CALLED, UH, LIKE IN THE AUTOCENTRIC, YOU CAN HAVE THAT BROKEN OUT INTO AUTOCENTRIC. SO IT'S MM-HMM . INSTEAD OF HAVING THIS JUST ONE LUMP SUM, YOU COULD BREAK THAT OUT INTO ITS OWN CATEGORY OF SAY LIKE THE VAPE SHOPS AND THE ALONG WITH THE TABLE. THAT'S AN, THAT'S, IT'S GOT THREE OF THOSE. IF I'M READING THIS RIGHT, IT'S GOT THREE ON THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO RETAIL ALLOWED WITHOUT PERMISSION. CORRECT. AND IT'S THAT WHAT IT'S WRITTEN RIGHT NOW? NO. THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN RIGHT NOW, THERE'S NONE. PERIOD. WELL, YEAH. CORRECT. WHAT IS ALLOWED? NONE. NONE. SO WE'RE CHANGING THAT. MM-HMM . BUT THE ONLY, THE ONLY QUESTION WE HAD IS IF WE PUT IT CIRCLE WITH HALF, THEN THE STAFF CAN DO THAT 3000, YOU KNOW, NO TWO TOGETHER. I READ RIGHT UP TO THE POINT THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME THAT ARE, ARE CIRCLES MM-HMM . THAT THERE SHOULD BE A, A PRETTY COMPREHENSIVE, SO MR. BROWS POINT WORTH COMING AT YEAH. TO BREAK OUT THOSE SUB SUBCATEGORIES INTO THEIR OWN LITTLE SURE. SETS THAT'S, YOU ARE PICKING UP WHAT WE'RE LAYING DOWN HERE. YEAH. AB ABSOLUTELY NO. THAT YOU GET USED TO CONSOLIDATED USE TABLE AND BREAK OUT THE STUFF YOU DON'T WANT IN DOWNTOWN AND CORRECT. HAVE THEM EXCLUDED. THAT'S TABLE 11 4 7. IT'S DONE. THREE OF THOSE ON THERE ALREADY. HARD WORK'S ALREADY BEEN DONE. LIKE YOU ALREADY HAVE THE, THE SERVICES THAT CAN BE OFFERED, BUT JUST BREAK IT OUT TO WHERE YOU WANT THOSE, IT'S SO LIKE FLEA MARKETS, NO LIQUOR STORE. THERE'S FOUR OF 'EM ALREADY EXCLUDED OUT. FLEA MARKET, LIQUOR STORE VAPE AND VET SERVICES. WE NEED TO, SO CAREFUL, IF YOU PUT THE, IF YOU PUT THE FULL CIRCLE, YOU'VE EXCLUDED THE OTHER FOUR ALREADY FROM DOWNTOWN. WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO BECOME OVER RESTRICTIVE. I MEAN OH YEAH. THAT WHY I HAVE A JUST GO GREEN LINE. VERY BAD. YEAH. YEAH. I AGREE. MY QUESTION THOUGH IS WHY WOULD YOU NOT WANT TO VET SERVICE? WHY IS THAT NOT ALLOWED? IT'S, THAT'S THE ONLY REASON. I JUST NODDED ON THAT ONE. WHY IS THAT? WHY ARE WE SAYING NO TO IT? 'CAUSE AGAIN, EVERYBODY'S GOT PETS. THAT'S A GREAT REASON TO GO DOWNTOWN. AND THEN YOU HAVE A PET FRIENDLY STORE NEXT DOOR, THEY GO WALKING AROUND WITH THEIR PETS DOWNTOWN AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO I DON'T KNOW WHY IT'S, WHY IS IT EXCLUDED? WELL, COULD NECESSARILY NOT HAVE IT DOWNTOWN, BUT YOU COULD HAVE IT IN YOUR, UM, URBAN TRANSITION. YEAH. KEN, I'M, I'M, I'M GETTING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. YEAH. THERE'RE PLACES DON'T ME WRONG. I, I CAN THINK OF A THOUSAND BETTER PLACES TO PUT IT. YEAH. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO PAY THE MONEY AND IT'S LESS THAN 3000 SQUARE FOOT AND IT'S, IT'S A PET CLINIC VERSUS AGREE A DOCTOR OR DENTIST CLINIC, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? YEAH, I AGREE. I'M JUST THINKING THAT IT'S A LITTLE EASIER TO BREAK IT OUT TO THOSE SUBCATEGORIES THAN TRY TO HAVE ULTIMATELY ON THE, ON THE RETAIL RETAIL SECTION, TRAVIS. MM-HMM . WE NEED TO HAVE A VERY COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF THINGS THAT ARE CIRCLE, THAT ARE JUST GET YOUR PERMIT AND GO TO WORK. UH, THAT'S STILL A THOUSAND PERCENT AGREE. I THINK IT'S, IT'S BECOMING MORE AND MORE EVIDENT. 3000 SQUARE FEET IS BECOMING MORE OF, MORE OF A, A POINT. WELL, THE OTHER THING TO GET THESE BUSINESSES IN THE RIGHT ORDER. YEAH. AND THE OTHER THING IS YOU DON'T WANT, I REALLY LIKED IS I DID THE BUFFER. AND THAT YOU DON'T WANT TWO THINGS EXACTLY THE SAME. YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, THAT SORT OF THING. SO THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO HAVE, UH, THE STAFF HAVE THOSE THINGS THAT WE GIVE THEM. THOSE ARE TOOLS THAT THEY HAVE TO, YOU COULD ALSO DO, LIKE YOU HAVE ON THE, THE GRAPH WE LOOKED AT A LITTLE WHILE AGO. YOU CAN HAVE THE, LIKE THE P ONE, THE P TWO, THE, YOU CAN PUT THAT STUFF ON YOUR GRAPH. YEAH. THE, THAT LITTLE EXPONENT ON THERE, CORRECT? MM-HMM . BREAK. UH, WE'VE GOT JUST A LITTLE, I THINK WE'RE GONNA SCROLL THROUGH THE LAST PART PRETTY QUICK. THE ONLY THING I, I'M SEEING VEHICLE SALES AND SERVICES, FUEL SALES. WE NEED THE RETAIL. WE NEED, WE NEED THE LITTLE SQUEEZE BACK. YEAH, I WOULD, I JUST WANTED TO SHOW, THIS IS AN EXAMPLE THAT I COULD THINK OF OFFHAND OF, OF SOME OF THOSE LIMITED USE STANDARDS. THIS IS FOR A BAR. UH, IT HAS A RESTRICTION 600 FEET FROM EXISTING LOCATION, THE SAME USE. COOL. YOU KNOW, STUFF LIKE THAT. SPECIFIC ZONING DISTRICTS. YEAH. SO WE HAVE GAS STATIONS DOWNTOWN. THAT AIN'T GONNA CHANGE NOT ANYTIME SOON. BUT I DO THINK YOU NEED TO HAVE AT LEAST A HALF CIRCLE. 'CAUSE WHEREVER THEY'RE GONNA PUT IT, WE NEED TO HAVE COUNCIL HAVE AUTHORITY TO SAY THAT'S A GOOD USE OF WHATEVER. BUT COUNCIL DOESN'T HAVE AUTHORITY WHEN YOU HAVE A HALF CIRCLE. IT'S STAFF. IS THAT CORRECT? YES, MA'AM. SO IF COUNCIL ONLY HAS AUTHORITY WHEN IT'S ALL BLACK. CORRECT. OKAY. YEAH. AND SO IF YOU NOTICE FUEL SALES SPECIFICALLY IS ALLOWED IN AN INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT, AND THEN IN AUTOCENTRIC IT HAS LIMITED USE STANDARDS. SO LET'S LOOK AT THOSE REAL QUICK. IT'S JUST ONE SENTENCE, BUT IT'S PRETTY SPECIFIC. IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO A SIGNALED INTERSECTION AND SHALL BE SPACED A MINIMUM OF 450 LINEAR FEET FROM OTHER FUEL SALES ESTABLISHMENTS. YEAH. UH, SO FROM WHAT I'VE LOOKED AT AROUND THE CITY AND YOU KNOW, MEASURING INTERSECTION DISTANCES, STUFF LIKE THAT, UH, THIS EFFECTIVELY [02:55:02] LIMITS ABOUT ONE GAS STATION PER INTERSECTION. IF YOU MEASURE ACROSS THE, ACROSS THE INTERSECTION DIAGONALLY, IT'S GONNA BE LESS THAN THAT 450 FEET IN, IN OTHER ZONING DISTRICTS IN THIS ONE HERE SPECIFICALLY, BECAUSE WHILE WE DO HAVE GAS STATIONS DOWN THERE, WE DO WANT TO KIND OF LIMIT THE NUMBER OF GAS STATIONS. SO I THINK THAT SHOULD BE A BLACK CIRCLE. IT DOES EXIST. DOES THIS GO WELL? BUT HERE'S THE DRILL. IF YOU HAVE IT DOWN NOTHING LIKE IT IS NOW, THEN THE OTHERS ARE GRANDFATHERED IN. RIGHT. I MEAN, SO THE EXISTING GAS STATIONS ARE, ARE NON-CONFORMING. IF THEY DON'T THAT'S RIGHT. YOU KNOW, IF THEY DON'T MEET, UH, I THINK THAT'S THIS REQUIREMENT, BUT THEY CAN CONTINUE TO EXIST AND DO. UH, BUT WE'RE PUTTING CHA THIS IS SOMETHING WE'VE BEEN EXPERIENCING FOR YEARS AS FAR AS PROPERTIES THAT ARE FALLING IN THE NON-CONFORMING MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, WE CHANGE THINGS AROUND, THINGS THAT DON'T CHANGE A HUNDRED TIMES AND THEN IT JUST, IT'S NEVER, IT'S ALWAYS A QUESTION OF WHEN THEY WANNA DO SOMETHING TO THEIR PROPERTY THAT I FEEL IS, SHOULD BE COMPLETELY THEIR RIGHT TO DO IT. AH, YOU'RE NON-CONFORMING BECAUSE WE'VE CHANGED EVERYTHING AROUND YOU. THESE PEOPLE HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH 87 HOOPS TO MEET THE FACT THAT THEY'RE NON-CONFORMING AND THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING TO THEIR OWN PROPERTY. YEAH. ALWAYS HAD A PROBLEM WITH THAT. BUT, UH, AND I RESPECT EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING EXCEPT FOR A DOWNTOWN SECTION, A DOWNTOWN SECTION, YOU DON'T EXPECT, UH, GAS STATIONS TO BE PART OF A DOWNTOWN SECTION. AND SO IF THEY ARE, THEN THEY ARE NON-CONFORMING. I MEAN, IN MY MIND, I MEAN, 'CAUSE DOWNTOWN IS SPECIFIC. THERE'S, OF COURSE WE WANT GAS STATIONS IN OUR CITY, BUT IN YOUR SMALL LITTLE DOWNTOWN, WE HAVE THREE OF 'EM IN DOWNTOWN. WELL, I UNDERSTAND, BUT THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WANT IN THE FUTURE. SO IT'S A NON-CONFORMING AND PRIMARILY YOU JUST CAN'T HAVE ANY NEW GAS STATIONS IN DOWNTOWN. BUT THE ONES THAT ARE THERE WHEN YOU'RE NOT BOOTING 'EM OUT, THAT'S WHAT NON THEY'RE, THEY'RE NONCONFORMING, BUT THEY'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. NO. THEY SELL TO SOMEBODY ELSE. IT'S STILL A GAS STATION. IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S GOTTA EQUIP BEING A GAS STATION. IF THEY WANT TO PROVE THAT, IF THEY WANT TO APPROVE THAT GAS STATION YEAH. THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO IMPROVE IT. YEAH. THEY WOULD JUST NEED TO COME FOR THE, BUT WHEN YOU'RE NON-CONFORMING, GENERALLY YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO ANY IMPROVEMENTS TO IT. I THINK THE WAY IT'S READ, YOU CAN DO IMPROVEMENTS. YOU CAN'T EXPAND. YEAH. SO I, I'M GONNA USE A CRAZY SCENARIO HERE AND NOT SAYING THAT THAT IS THE GIST OF ANYTHING WE NEED TO ADJUST. JUST HOW WOULD IT BE MANAGED? THE, THE SHELL STATION RIGHT HERE AT HIGHWAY THREE AND FIVE 17, BUCKY'S DECIDES TO BUY IT. OKAY. PERSONALLY, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A BUCKY'S NEAR OUR DOWNTOWN. I THINK THAT'S FANTASTIC. IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT GONNA BE A TEXAS CITY BUCKY'S, BUT THEY WANT TO TEAR DOWN THE BUILDING, PUT A NEW BUILDING UP THAT MEETS THEIR COMPANY CORPORATION STANDARDS AND EVERYTHING, AND DO A VARIETY OF THINGS. WOULD WE ALLOW IT, UH, BASED ON THIS RIGHT NOW IN, IN THE DOWNTOWN ZONING DISTRICT? NO. UH, BUT I BELIEVE THE SPECIFIC PROPERTY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS NOT ITS ZONE DOWNTOWN. YOU SAID IT'S GOTTA BE DOWNTOWN. IT'S FOUR, FIVE. OH, YOU SAID THREE AND HIGHWAY THREE AND FIVE 17. THAT IS DOWNTOWN. YEAH, THAT'S DOWNTOWN. BUT, AND AGAIN, IT'S A SCENARIO. I KNOW I'M NOT SAYING THAT WHERE I'M TRYING TO GET PROCESSED BASED ON THAT, BUT IT'S STILL AT SOME POINT, YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE HAVE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REBUILD, REPLACE, RENEW. AND I, I GET, I GUESS THE TERM THAT MAYBE WE'RE DYING ON IS EXPAND. YOU KNOW, IF I'M GONNA TEAR MY BUILDING DOWN BECAUSE IT'S OLD AND RATTY AND I WANNA BUILD A NEW ONE AND IT'S 50 FEET MORE SQUARE FOOTAGE, I'M STILL NON-CONFORMING. YEAH. I GUESS THE DIFFERENCE IS YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME FUTURE IDEA IN YOUR MIND. YEAH. AND SO THAT'S, IF WE BUILD EVERYTHING ABOUT WHAT IS, I MEAN, WE'VE GOTTA THINK BOTH WAYS. THAT'S WHY WE'RE RIGHT. PLANNING THAT IS KIND OF HOW YOU REACH YOUR GOAL OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. RIGHT. IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. UH, AND IT'S NOT, IT'S GONNA HAPPEN AT THE SPEED OF WHOEVER OWNS THAT PROPERTY YOU WANT, WANTS TO DO IT, YOU KNOW? UH, BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE A FACT TO GET THERE. THE FACT OF MESSING WITH THE CITY FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS, MYSELF, AND THE FACT THAT THE NUMBER OF THINGS THAT HAVE CHANGED AS A RESULT OF JUST, WHETHER IT'S GOVERNMENT, WHETHER IT'S HARVEY, WHETHER IT'S DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIONS, WHATEVER, I'M ALWAYS GONNA BE IN FAVOR OF, OF GIVING THE COUNCIL THE, THE OPTION AND GIVING THE PEOPLE THE OPTION OF PRESENTING TO COUNCIL IF COUNCIL DOESN'T AGREE WITH IT, THAT, THAT THEY DON'T AGREE WITH IT. I, I KNOW WE GOTTA HAVE FUTURE PLANS AND STUFF, BUT I DON'T LIKE TELLING PEOPLE NO. IN THAT REGARD. IF YOU'VE GOT A PRODUCT THAT PEOPLE WANNA BUY, I CANNOT STAND IT WHEN WE HAVE A BUREAUCRATIC RULE THAT SAYS, SORRY, YOU CAN'T GET THERE FROM HERE. I'M ALWAYS GONNA ARGUE THAT RIGHT OR WRONG. WELL, THAT'S HOW OUR CITY'S KIND OF, IS IT JUST KIND OF HAPPEN A STANCE RIGHT NOW. WELL, I MEAN, WE WENT A LOT OF YEARS WITH NO ZONING, AND THAT'S KIND OF HOW WE GOT A LOT OF THE PLACES [03:00:01] WE ARE. BUT ANYWAY, HOW DOES, UH, CHARGING STATIONS AND CHARGING BANK STATIONS WORK SIMILAR TO THIS? YEAH. THAT I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE THAT LANGUAGE IS ACTUALLY INCLUDED IN FUEL SALES. IT'S TECHNICALLY, IT'S A FUEL. UNDERSTOOD. YES. YEAH. WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED AN EXPANSION? IT IS MAILABLE AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS WHOLE FUEL SYSTEM IS NOT A HILL I'M WILLING TO DIE ON. I MEAN, IF EVERYBODY GOES, BRUCE, YOU'RE ON THE WRONG RADIANT, YOU KNOW, PATHS. UH, OKAY. IT'S JUST, I, I PREFER COUNCIL HAVE THE OPTION TO HAVE A RESPONSE TO IT. WELL, AND WHAT I'M, I GUESS WHAT I'M ASKING IS THE, LIKE IF YOU HAVE YOUR PARKING SPOT, YOUR PARKING SPOT, AND YOU PUT TESLA CHARGING STATIONS IN IT, THEN YOU'RE TECHNICALLY A FUEL STATION. RIGHT? SO THAT'S WHERE, IN YOUR DOWNTOWN, THAT STILL IS A DRAW. I THINK CHARGING STATIONS CAN BE ISOLATED OUT. THAT'S WHAT I, YEAH. I THINK THAT WOULD, I THINK THAT WOULD REALLY, UH, CONSTITUTE AN ACCESSORY USE. YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE, YOU KNOW, LIKE GROCERY STORES AND STUFF THAT HAVE CHARGING STATIONS IN THE PARKING LOTS. YEAH. THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE AS AN ACCESSORY USE, AS YOUR PRIMARY USE IS SOMETHING THAT'S TERMINATED. WELL, WHAT I'M SAYING IS THEY, YOU COULD PUT THAT IN DOWNTOWN TO BE THAT DRAW AND RIGHT. AGREE. NOW THAT IS, IT'S FORMULATED AS FUEL CELLS. UH, YOU MEAN A ARE YOU REFERENCING A CLASSIFIED AS A YEAH. A GAS STATION, ESSENTIALLY. AND SO YOU, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A STANDALONE ELECTRIC CHARGING STATION. YEAH. YEAH. THAT'S NOT ASSOCIATED WITH ANY OTHER PRIMARY USE. UNDERSTOOD. RIGHT. SO GET IT OUT OF THAT CATEGORY, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. WILL YOU OR HAVE THE ASTERISK OF CHARGING STATIONS COMPARED TO FUEL STATIONS UNDERSTOOD. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE. YEAH, GOOD POINT. IT'S CORE FOOT IS DIFFERENT. THE, THE INFRASTRUCTURE'S DIFFERENT. SO IN ANSWERING BACK TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THE GAS STATIONS THAT ARE THERE ANYTIME, I MEAN, IF WE, IF WE SAY THAT THAT IS NOT WHAT WE'D WANT FOR OUR FUTURE, ANYTIME THERE'S SOME REALLY HUGE NEED OUT THERE FOR THAT IN THE FUTURE THAT WE CAN'T FIGURE OUT, EVEN IF IT'S NOT ZONED OUT, PEOPLE CAN COME IN FRONT OF COUNCIL OR IN FRONT OF BUILDING STANDARDS OR IN FRONT OF ANY OF THAT AND MAKE, AND MAKE A CLAIM FOR IT. YOU KNOW, AND IF IT, THEN IN 25 YEARS, IF IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO HAVE THAT IN DOWNTOWN, THEN, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THAT THE COUNCIL AT THAT TIME WILL SEE THAT AS POSITIVE TO ROBERT'S POINT. WHY WOULD YOU, WHAT DO YOU MEAN? YOU KNOW, IF IT SAYS YOU, IT'S NOT ALLOWED, AND I REALLY WANNA DO ONE AND YOUR CHARTER, YOUR PLANNING AND ZONING SAYS THE ANSWER'S NO, NO. I AGREE. I DONT GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. I DON'T WANT IT. UH, WELL, THE POINT IS YEAH. WHO, WHO'S GOING, WHO'S GONNA THROW THEMSELVES ON THE CROSS? YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW. 25 YEARS FROM NOW, WHO WANTS BE FIRST? HMM. HUH? JUST LIKE THE, THE ONE I, I'M GIVING HIM THE CREDIT ON THAT, RIGHT? YEAH. WHO WANTS TO BE FIRST? NOT ME. OKAY. VERY EXPENSIVE. SO IF YOU WANT BUNCHES OF FUEL PLACES IN YOUR DOWNTOWN SESSION, THEN DO IT. I WANT A BUNCH OF THEM. OH. YOU KNOW, SIDE BY SIDE. JUST GET 'EM DOWN THERE. GONNA HIT ME WITH SOMETHING HERE IN A MINUTE. BRING THE, JUST BRING ME LITTLE SHIP CHANNEL IN A TANKER. LOOK LIKE YOU'RE GONNA SAY SOMETHING, A BIG HOSE. YOU'RE NOT GONNA SAY YOU'RE GONNA, YOU'RE NOT GONNA TOUCH THIS SMIRKING. SAY WE DON'T WANNA BE TOO RESTRICTIVE. OKAY. NO, I THINK IT'S BAD. WELL, DO YOU THINK IT'S REALLY RESTRICTIVE TO SAY YOU DON'T WANT NUMBERS OF GAS STATIONS IN YOUR DOWNTOWN? MANY, MANY, MANY DOWNTOWN AREA? NO, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT TOO RESTRICTIVE. I DON'T EITHER. QUANTIFY. WHAT? WHAT'S THAT? DET AND HIGHWAY THREE? IS THAT AUTOCENTRIC? WE SO DE I BELIEVE THAT IS AUTO. LET'S MOVE, BECAUSE THERE'S A CORNER THERE. I THINK THAT'S BEEN TRYING TO DO A GAS STATION, RIGHT? THAT'S AUTOCENTRIC. I THINK HE, HE'S SOME, HE'S TALKING ABOUT SOME. OKAY, LET'S GO BACK TO, YEAH, IT'S OUTSIDE DOWNTOWN. OH, IT DIED ON, SO TRAVIS, I'M STILL ON, UH, THE CONSOLIDATED USE TABLE, AND I HAVE A QUESTION. OKAY. BUILDING DEV, BUILDING AND DEVELOPMENT CONTRACTOR. MM-HMM . ALRIGHT. DISREGARD, DISREGARD. I WAS READING THIS WRONG. GO BACK. I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS, THIS SAYING A, A PLUMBING OR A CARPENTER BUSINESS, SOMETHING TO THEIR, AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT ELS JUST WENT IN THERE AND I WAS LIKE, OKAY, BUT THAT'S AN OFFICE BUILDING. IT'S MOSTLY OFFICE. AND SO WE ACTUALLY HAD THIS SPECIFIC, UH, CONVERSATION WITH THEM, UH, BECAUSE BUILDING DEVELOPMENT CONTRACTOR, IT KINDLY, IT KIND OF, UH, EXPLAINS, YOU KNOW, THEIR PORTION OF IT'S GONNA BE OUTDOOR STORAGE, LIKE THINK UTILITY SERVICE TRUCKS OR, YOU KNOW, PIPE OR STUFF LIKE THAT. NORMALLY WILL, WILL BE PART OF A BUILDING OR DEVELOPMENT CONTRACTOR USE. AND ELS, LIKE YOU SAID, IS STRICTLY [03:05:01] OFFICE. AND, AND THEY CONFIRM THAT. OKAY. YEAH. THINKING ABOUT THE PLACE IN BOSTON CHURCH. YEP. YEAH. YES, SIR. AND THEN THE NEXT QUESTION I HAVE IS MICRO MANUFACTURING. I CAN'T SEE THE DEAL. CAN YOU? OKAY. THERE YOU GO. SEE, YOU COULD HAVE LOOKED AT MINE, BUT YOU DIDN'T WANT TO . YEAH. AND THIS IS WHERE I'M QUESTIONING, BECAUSE THIS IS TALK ABOUT, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, ARTISAN GOODS. YOU KNOW, UH, AGAIN, A 3000 SQUARE FOOT STORE WHERE SOMEBODY'S DOING SILVER CRAFTING. YOU CAN'T PUT A BAKERY IN, YOU CAN'T PUT A, UM, ANYWHERE THEY MAKE THEIR OWN GOODS IN THE HOUSE. WHO DO I WANT A BAKERY? YEAH. THAT'S FOOD. FOOD STUFFS THOUGH, RIGHT? WASN'T MICRO MANUFACTURING IN THE LIVE WORK UNIT ALLOWED? YEAH. SO YEAH, SO THAT'S WHAT THE LIVE WORK TALKS ABOUT, IS IT ALLOWS SIMILAR USES TO MICRO MANUFACTURING. SO THEN WHY WOULD YOU NOT ALLOW IT BY ITSELF WITHOUT A LIVE WORK UNIT ATTACHED? BECAUSE I, I'M THINKING THIS JUST REINFORCES THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF DOWNTOWN. IF I'VE GOT A LITTLE ARTISAN SHOP WHERE MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, HELL, EVEN IF I'M MAKING POTTERY IN THERE FOR ISN'T A MICRO BREWERY MANUFACTURING BEER LIKE THAT? OKAY, WELL, THAT TURNS INTO AN ALCOHOL QUESTION. I THINK THAT CHANGES THE, THE SOUND OF IT BAKERY, BUT, AND THEN THE QUESTION IS, FOOD STUFF IS ANOTHER DIFFERENT SETS OF RULES. YEAH. BUT I'M THINKING ABOUT YOUR BASIC ARTISAN MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, THAT'S, AGAIN, MAKING JEWELRY, SELLING JEWELRY, MAKING POTTERY, YOU KNOW, UH, EXCUSE ME. AND THAT'S THE KIND OF STUFF THAT I THINK WE DO WANT IN THE DOWNTOWN CONCEPT AS FAR AS THE TRYING TO WALK AROUND USING SMALL HAND TOOLS OR LIGHT MACHINERY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO 3D PRINTERS OR COMPUTERS, NUMERICAL CONTROLLED ROUTERS. AGAIN, IF WE'RE GOING WITH A LESS THAN 3000 SQUARE FOOT, I THINK THAT PUTS A LIMITATION TO WHERE IT'S GOTTA BE THAT TYPE OF BUSINESS. SO THAT'S ONE. I WOULD THINK THERE WOULD BE MERIT IN GIVING THAT A CIRCLE. OR AM I MISSING ANYTHING, SIR? NO, YOU'RE NOT. I THINK A HALF A CIRCLE IS GOOD. YOU SAY A HALF A CIRCLE? NO, I WAS SAYING FULL CIRCLE. FULL CIRCLE. I CIRCLE. I MEAN, IF IT'S JUST AGAIN, A 3000 SQUARE FOOT FACILITY. OKAY. OR LESS. OKAY. YES. AND YOU'RE TALKING ON THE, ON THE MICRO MANUFACTURING ONE. YES, SIR. YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T HAVE ANYBODY, UH, MAKING, UH, LARGE SCALE STUFF ON LESS THAN 3000 SQUARE FOOT WAREHOUSE SPACE. YEAH. THAT'S PRETTY SMART. AND THEN SCROLLING THROUGH THE REST OF, I'D HAVE NO MORE COMMENTS ON THIS ONE. YEAH. THE OTHER STUFF'S KIND OF ALL OTHER, WHAT'S THAT? THE, ALL OTHER, ALL OTHER MEANS. AND INDUSTRIAL USE CATEGORY CHARACTERIZED BY USES ENGAGEMENT MANUFACTURER, BASIC FINISH INPUTS. THEY CAN BE FOUND IN SECTION. WHAT, WHERE, SORRY, I MISSED THE WRONG ONE. THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT THING. IT WAS, IT'S HEAVY INDUSTRIAL. ARE THESE, UH, YOU DON'T WANT THAT AREN'T THE BEST IN THE MIDDLE? NO. GRAVER, EXTERMINATION. MICRO MANUFACTURING. YOU'RE, WE'RE THINKING OF LITTLE HOME THINGS. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S YEAH. ARTISAN GOODS. THAT'S FINE. BUT THE REST OF THE STUFF YOU DON'T, THAT'S NOT PART OF DOWNTOWN 18 11 5. KNOW WHERE IS THE LIGHT? YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA HAVE SOME IDEA. WELL, THERE'S HEAVY INDUSTRIAL. WHAT'S THE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL YEAH. BOAT BUILDING. YEAH. I MEAN, YOU DON'T WANT THAT IN DOWNTOWN. COME ON GUYS. I MEAN, WE WANT IT IN OUR CITY NOT THERE. I WOULD ASSUME LIKE THE ENGRAVERS AND THAT WOULD BE A MICRO MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, I'M REALLY THINKING THAT 3000 FOOT LIMITATION IS HELPFUL. IS IS PHENOMENALLY HELPFUL. YEAH. BECAUSE THERE'S A, A A MILLION DIFFERENT DESCRIPTORS. I MEAN, I WAS EVEN THINKING DRY CLEANING. OOH, I DON'T WANT A DRY CLEANER. I'M LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE. WHAT IF YOU JUST HAVE A DRY CLEANING SATELLITE OFFICE WHERE THEY, THEY PICK UP AND THEN THEY DRIVE IT AWAY? YEAH. THAT'S NOT A TERRIBLE THING TO HAVE. YEAH. WE HAD IT DOWNTOWN FOR YEARS. YEAH. SO, YEAH. BUT THEY CAN'T DO DRY CLEANING DOWN THERE. THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ENOUGH SPACE FOR ALL THAT. OKAY. READY BREAK. I'M READY TO EAT. YEP. I'VE BEEN READY. SO DOWNTOWN'S GOOD. DOWNTOWN DONE. AND SO WE'RE ALLOWING MICRO MANUFACTURING LIMITED USE 3000 SQUARE FEET. YEP. YEP. ALL RIGHT. MITA, ARE WE MAKING [03:10:01] PROGRESS? I CAN'T TELL. WELL, JUST OPEN SPACES, PARKS. RIGHT? THAT IS BILL ALLOWS AS WELL. THAT'S KIND OF LARGE ACREAGE PROPERTY GENERALLY. OKAY. BASICALLY EVERYTHING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BAYOU. YEAH. THAT'S WHAT'S LABELED HERE. WHERE IS SCREW THIS ONE OR MORE? YEAH. IT'S, IT'S ONE OF MY LOT'S, LIKE 0.98 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. REALLY? WHERE DO YOU LIVE? HEY, TRAVIS. I RIGHT LIVES ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME. MM-HMM. ACROSS THE STREET NEIGHBOR. OH. VERY POPULAR NEIGHBORHOOD. ONE TIME WE HAD TWO COUNCILMEN, THREE P AND Z GUYS, PLEASE DON'T PLAY . NO, WE GOT THE PRESIDENT OF THE, NO. HEY, NOBODY'S LIVES ON THE EAST SIDE WITH ME. I'M IN THE, WE THE, WELL, I MOVED OVER TO THE WEST SIDE, SO I HANG. WELL, THE PRESIDENT OF THE FRICKING UH, THE, UH, SCHOOL BOARD SCHOOL BOARD LIVES AROUND THE CORNER FROM US TOO. YEAH. YEP. OKAY. WELL, I'M JUST SAYING I, MY AREA NEEDS TO BE UP, RIGHT? , OUR STREETS ARE STILL CRACKED. YEAH. I GOTTA HELP. I GOT A HELL OF A DITCH. PEOPLE END UP IN. I'M JUST SAYING. SO TRAVIS, I'M GONNA ASK YOU TO GIVE ME A, A READER'S DIGEST VERSION EXPLANATION OF WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL AND GENERAL COMMERCIAL AUTOCENTRIC. I THINK WE CHANGED AUTOCENTRIC TO GENERAL. SOUNDS GOOD. BECAUSE I'M, I'M SCROLLING THROUGH THIS AND I'M GOING, WE, WE READY TO START, RIGHT? YEAH. YES, SIR. OH, I'M SORRY. YEAH. YEAH. MAKE SURE YOUR MICS ARE ON, HUH? GOT IT. YEAH. SO THE QUESTION, TRAVIS, FOR THE RECORD, IS WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SMALL SCALE AND AUTOCENTRIC, WHICH WE HAVE REQUESTED BE CHANGED TO GENERAL? GOTCHA. UH, SO SMALL SCALE IS, IS OBVIOUSLY PER NAME MUCH SMALLER SCALE THAN DEVELOPMENT THAN WHAT AUTOCENTRIC, UH, ALLOWS FOR. YOU JUST MOVED , WHAT DOES IT, SORRY. OH, SEE, YEAH, THEY'RE MOST LIKELY LOCATED IN NEIGHBORHOOD ENTRANCES, BUT I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE EVER HAD THAT LIMITING FACTOR ON AUTOCENTRIC. SO I THINK IF WE LOOK AT THIS, IT'S PROBABLY GONNA TELL US THAT THIS DISTRICT WAS SIMILAR TO THAT, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. YOU GO AHEAD. ALRIGHT. THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE, RIGHT? YEAH. OKAY. SO THEY'D BE LIKE LITTLE OFFICE BUILDINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SEE IS SIMILAR. SO IF YOU PUT THE LITTLE, UH, BUBBLE THINGS UP, WHATEVER YOU CALLED IT, WE CAN SEE. UM, OKAY. IT'S ALL RIGHT. WE'RE, WE'RE IN THIS COLUMN HERE. YEAH. IT PERMITS THIS. SO LIVE WORK. LIVE WORK. UPPER STORY RESIDENTIAL. OKAY. ASSISTED LIVING, NURSING HOME. AND SO THESE ARE, THESE ARE USES THAT SHOULD NOT IMPACT, YOU KNOW, ADJACENT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS, UH, TOO MUCH VERSUS, YOU KNOW, AUTOCENTRIC WITH LIKE CAR DEALERSHIPS, YOU KNOW, LARGER COMMERCIAL RESERVES, ASSISTED LIVING SCHOOLS, LIBRARY, GOVERNMENT FACILITIES, UH, MEDICAL CLINIC, DENTAL OFFICE. AND SO APPARENTLY THAT'S WHERE WE CAN HAVE OUR GOVERNMENT OFFICES. CORRECT. MEDICAL, CLINICAL PARKS, OPEN AREAS. SO, PERMITS, BARS, NIGHTCLUBS, TAVERNS WITH A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT THROUGH COUNCIL. OOH. WHY WOULD YOU HAVE A BAR IN, IN, WHY WOULD YOU HAVE THAT IN A, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD AREA? THAT WAY YOU COULD WALK TO THE BARN AND HAVE A BEER AND WALK HOME TRYING TO D DOWN ON DWIS. YEAH. . SO IN LINE, I THINK, AND TRAVIS, THESE ARE ALL OFFICIALLY COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, [03:15:01] BUT SOME ARE CLOSER TO NEIGHBORHOODS THAN OTHERS. AND SO THIS WOULD BE NEIGHBORHOOD, YEAH. IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO OPEN A TAVERN THAT IS ADJACENT TO A NEIGHBORHOOD, TECHNICALLY IT MEETS THE EXPECTATIONS, BUT THERE MIGHT BE A LOT OF POLITICS TO IT. SO MAYBE THAT'S THE ONE THAT HAS TO BE REVIEWED BY COUNSEL FOR YAY OR NAY. THANK YOU. I AGREE WITH THAT, DON'T YOU? YEAH. MM-HMM . THAT'S SOLICIT. YES, SIR. IS IT, LET ME SEE. IT IS LISTED THAT IT REQUIRES COUNCIL APPROVAL. OKAY. WHAT? UM, HOLD ON. BUT I WOULD ASK THE QUESTION. GAME ROOM OR A MUSIC REDEMPTION MACHINE. UH, NEVERMIND. DISREGARD. DISREGARD. IT'S NOT ALLOWED IN THAT. YEAH. I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE GAME ROOM BEING INSIDE A POTENTIAL TAVERN, BUT DISREGARD. YEAH. THOSE ARE ACCESSORY USES. UH, SO WE DO PERMIT, UH, FORGIVE ME, IT'S EITHER FIVE OR SEVEN MACHINES. IT'S STATE LAW. WHAT'S A, A REDEMPTION MACHINE? THAT'S WHERE YOU, UH, CASH IN YOUR TICKETS. YOU DON'T GET PAID. YOU GET PRIZES. THINK OF AN ADULT. CHUCK AND CHEESE. YES. I LIKE THE MAIN EVENT. MM-HMM . BANKS OFFICES. BED AND BREAKFAST FOOD, TRUCK COURTS, UH, RESTAURANTS, LIQUOR STORE WITH COUNCIL APPROVAL. IT'S ON THE WRONG LINE. OKAY. NOW I'M NOT SEEING ANY ISSUES WITH THIS ONE. DOES ANYBODY SEE ANYTHING JUMPING UP, SCREAMING AT HIM? MM-HMM. NOT NECESSARILY. NO FUEL. OKAY. NO FUEL CELLS. THAT'S CORRECT. YOU WANT SOME GAS STATIONS UP ON BY MY NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE SARCASM. OKAY. SO THAT'S A GOOD POINT. LET'S LOOK, LET'S LOOK WHAT AREAS ARE ACTUALLY ZONED AS A SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL? WHAT COLOR IS IT? IT IS GONNA BE THIS ORANGE. WE SHOULD BE FOR ORANGE. IT'S . OH, . . SO THERE'S NOT A LOT. YOU GOT SOME, UH, OUT HERE. THIS IS IN FRONT OF BAYOU LAKES. MM-HMM . YOU GOT SOME HERE ON FIVE 17. THAT'S ACROSS FROM, UH, PAUL HOPKINS, ISN'T IT? YEAH. CORRECT. YEP. UH, YOU GOT THIS LITTLE PIECE THAT'S AT DIETS AND OAK. I KNOW THAT'S BEEN A HOT TOPIC. DIETS ROAD. MM-HMM . THAT'S THE ONE. UH, WHERE THE GAS, UH, THE, UH, GROCERY STORE IS, THAT'S CLOSED. I, NO, I THINK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ONE UP HERE BY LOGAN, RIGHT? YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. YEAH. THAT'S SILVER LOW. MY BAD. SO THIS IS, THIS IS DECENT OAK. OAK SHOULD NEVER BE THAT AT ALL. THAT SHOULD BE RESIDENTIAL. IT'S ALL RESIDENTIAL THERE. YEAH. YEAH. CURRENTLY THIS LOT IS VACANT. UH, THIS HOME IS ACTUALLY IN THE PROCESS OF BEING ELEVATED TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE WITH FEMA REGULATIONS. AND THESE OTHER LOTS ARE EXISTING RESIDENTIAL USES. IS THAT ONE ON THE, IT'S RESIDENTIAL. YOU'RE SAYING THAT THAT CAN BE A GAS STATION NOW? NO. MM-HMM. THERE'S HOUSES HOUSES ON THESE LOTS ALREADY, CORRECT? YEAH. THESE ARE SMALL. ALL EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE. YES, SIR. THESE ARE ALL SMALL SCALE. THIS IS SMALL SCALE RESIDENTIAL. YEAH. I'M JUST GOING, WHY WOULD WE MAKE THOSE COMMERCIAL IF THERE'S ALREADY RESIDENCES ON IT? SO THE, THE ANSWER TO THAT WOULD BE THAT THE, THE ADOPTED COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP SUPPORT THAT, THAT 2045, THE VISION FOR THE FUTURE IS TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, UH, IN THIS LOCATION OFF OF DETS. 'CAUSE IN REALITY, DETS GOES, AND THAT IS RUNNING THE QUESTION. THAT'S LIKE ANOTHER . YEAH. THAT LOT. ISN'T THAT SOUTH? YES. THIS, THIS ONE IS CURRENTLY VACANT NORTHWEST. THAT'S CORRECT. DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET. SOUNDS. OH, THERE'S A HOUSE THERE. THIS ONE. THERE'S A HOUSE THERE. YES, SIR. YEAH, THERE'S A, IT'S A PRETTY LARGE LOT, BUT THERE IS A HOUSE LOT. YEAH. YEAH. SO THESE WERE DEFINITELY A STRUGGLE FOR ME WHEN I WAS LIKE, WHY IS COMMERCIAL RIGHT HERE WHEN THESE ARE HOMES? BECAUSE THE, THEY'RE ALL RESIDENTIAL HOMES. AND I EVEN THINK A COUPLE BOUGHT THAT ONE ON THE CORNER. AND THEY USED TO SIT OUT AND LOOK AT THE BAYOU AND THOUGHT ABOUT THE HOME THEY WERE GONNA BUILD THERE. AND THEN IT WENT UP FOR SALE. 'CAUSE THEY REALIZED I COULDN'T BUILD A HOUSE THERE. UM, SO IT WAS, I THINK IT WAS A LITTLE SHOCK. I DIDN'T HELP 'EM BUY IT. BUT I REMEMBER DRIVING BY AND THEY PUT SOME PLANTS OUT FRONT, AND THEY WERE REALLY JUST, AND ONE DAY THEY WERE SITTING OUT ON THEIR LAND AND, AND SUCH THAT'S THAT, THAT I GUESS WEST CORNER ONE. AND WITH THE ZONING CHANGE, OF COURSE NOW IT'S UP FOR SALE AGAIN. AND [03:20:01] I FIND THAT ASININE. THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF OPPOSITION TO THAT. AN AWFUL LOT, I THINK. AND JUST TO, CAN COME FROM THE OTHER SIDE. THE PURPOSE WAS 20, 30 YEARS FROM NOW, OR IT COULD BE IN FIVE YEARS, A STORM COMES THROUGH AND TEARS DOWN A HOME. NOW THAT THE WHOLE IDEA IS YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE REBUILDING A HOME THERE. YOU'LL BE PUTTING SOMETHING THAT'S SOME KIND OF COMMERCIAL BUILDING THERE. AND I, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT WEST POINT. SO I PUT MY HOUSE THERE. WE HAVE A HARVEY, MY HOUSE FLOODS, AND THE CITY TELLS ME I CAN'T BUILD MY HOUSE BACK. WELL, HERE, GO BACK HERE TO A CERTAIN POINT. SO HERE, HERE'S THE DEAL. DIETZ IS, IS A THOROUGHFARE. MM-HMM . MM-HMM . AND SO YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE COMMERCIAL THERE. DEET MEAN IT ISN'T A THOROUGHFARE. DEETS IS A RESIDE. NO. YEAH. BUT I MEAN, DON'T GO INTO ONE OF OUR LARGER ONES, BUT THANK YOU. IT'S STRAIGHT. IT'S LOOK AT THE PROPOSED NEW THOROUGHFARE PLAN BECAUSE IT'S SAY WHAT? WELL, I WAS GONNA PULL UP THIS PROPOSED THOROUGHFARE PLAN AND SEE IF IT SHOWED YOU ALSO HAVE TO ANYTHING PROPOSED THAT AREA GRAND PARKWAY COMING THROUGH. YEAH. SO THIS IS GONNA BE ANOTHER AVENUE, JUST LIKE FIVE 17 IS AS ANOTHER, THAT'S, THAT'S THE WAY I'M LOOKING AT IT, IS MM-HMM. BECAUSE IT COMES FROM THE FEEDER. YEP. IT GOES ALL THE WAY PAST HIGHWAY THREE, PAST EVERYTHING ELSE. THAT'S, YEAH. AND IT GOES ALL THE WAY THROUGH I 45 ALSO DEETS. IT GOES TO THE WEST SIDE. THAT'S RIGHT. CORRECT. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. BUT IT'S, SEE, THAT GONNA BE A FARM TO MARKET ROAD EVER. YOU DON'T THINK THAT'S A THOROUGHFARE ROAD GOING TO BE? THE USE OF IT IS, IT'S WHAT YOU TAKE TO AVOID THE I 45 INTERSECTION. CORRECT. WHEN YOU WANT TO GET AROUND THAT TRAFFIC, I MEAN, YOU COULD PUT SUNSET IN THE SAME CATEGORY. AND IF YOU PUT A BRIDGE ACROSS THE BAYOU, THEN IT'S THE, IT'S THE NEXT DETS ROAD. MM-HMM . BUT IT'S RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A RESIDENTIAL AREA. I, AND CUT AND DRY. IT'S, EVERYBODY'S HOMES ARE FACING THAT. MM-HMM . YEAH. SO IT'S NOT, AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE, THE LOGIC. YEAH. I DON'T, I DON'T LOOK AT THAT AREA AS COMMERCIAL. WELL, IT'S NOT, THEY'RE LOOKING AT IT MORE LIKE NA, NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL. OKAY. SO I'M GOING TO THROW IT. WE'RE, WE'RE INTO OUR NEXT MEETING CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW TO DEBATE THIS STUFF. ALL RIGHT. SO SCROLLING OUT, IT'S STILL, I STILL DON'T COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING I KNOW ABOUT THIS, UH, SMALL, UH, THIS NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL. I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, LIKE LOTS OF SENSE, BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC BEHIND IT. I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT WE HAD NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL BACK IN THE DAY AND IT WAS VERY COMPARABLE TO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. BACK OFF OF, OFF OF DEETS ROAD, OFF OF SUNSET, UH, A MULTITUDE OF, UH, YEAH. TALK ABOUT DEETS ROAD, GOING EAST OF THE RAILROAD TRACKS. THERE'S A LOT OF COMMERCIAL PROPERTY IN THERE THAT ALL FELL IN THE CATEGORY OF NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL. 'CAUSE IT DID BACK UP TWO SUBDIVISIONS AND IT WASN'T THE QUINTESSENTIAL DEFINITION OF COMMERCIAL. SO THAT BEING SAID, WE CAN DEBATE WHERE THESE ORANGE SPOTS CAN BE AT THE NEXT MEETING. MM-HMM . BUT I THINK FOR RIGHT NOW, THE QUESTION IS UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS SMALL IS BASICALLY GONNA THINK ABOUT COMMERCIAL THAT BACKS UP TO SUBDIVISIONS. THAT IS NOT YOUR MAIN, UH, HIGHWAY MAIN COMMERCIAL TYPE ENVIRONMENTS. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT I DID NOT MAKE THAT VERY CLEAR. SORRY ABOUT THAT. SO WHAT, WE SHOULD GO BACK TO THE CIRCLES. UM, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE HONOR, WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT NOW IS WHAT'S, IT'S WHAT ALLOWED. SO WHAT'S ALLOWED IN THAT CATEGORY. SO WE'RE, WE'RE OKAY WITH WHAT'S ALLOWED IN THAT CATEGORY. ALL IN ALL, I AM, I THINK WE'RE, WE, ARE I SCREWED? SCROLL DOWN. SO NEXT CATEGORY IS AC. WE'VE ALREADY DEALT WITH BP, BRITISH PATROLLING, . UH, WE DON'T HAVE TO DO BP 'CAUSE WE DON'T ONLY HAVE ONE. RIGHT? WELL, YEAH, BUT YOU'RE, I, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. SOMEDAY WE WILL BUSINESS PARK. I MEAN, THEY, THERE, THERE'S COLORS FOR IT ON YOUR MAP, RIGHT? HUH? WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ALLOCATED THERE. IT IS ON THE LEGEND, BUT THERE IS, IT IS NOT REPRESENTED ON THE MAP BECAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S NOTHING THAT IS ZONED OUT. THERE'S NOTHING SAYING THAT GOING DOWN HIGHWAY THREE WON'T BE RIGHT. BUT IF, IF THAT IS, THERE'S NO CURRENT BP ON THE, IN ZONING ON THE MAT. SO PULL UP THE, THE LITTLE CIRCLE THING AGAIN. YOU KNOW, 20 YEARS FROM NOW WE'RE GONNA SAY THAT. PULL UP THE LITTLE CIRCLE THING AND WE'RE ALL GONNA KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. . MM-HMM . SHUSH. OKAY. SO MOST OF THE STUFF IS NOT ALLOWED IN THE LITTLE CIRCLE THING. GO DOWN. OH, HOLD ON. UM, BUSINESS PARK. THIS, WHERE ARE WE LOOKING AT NOW? EP, VP. YEAH. BP. BRAVO. PAPA. SO COMMUNITY FACILITIES, UH, MUSEUMS. LIBRARIES. WHOOP, WHOOP, WHOOP. DAYCARE. DAYCARE HERE WITH [03:25:01] TRAVIS. DOES THAT HAVE A MINIMUM? BP, DOES IT HAVE A MINIMUM ACREAGE OR LOT SIZE? LET'S LOOK AT THAT. SO IT LOOKS LIKE THE ANSWER TO THAT IS NO, THERE IS NOT A MINIMUM LOT AREA OR WIDTH. UH, HAS A MAXIMUM BUILDING COVERAGE. LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE GOING FOR OPEN, OPEN SPACE THERE. SO I WOULD ASSUME IT WOULD BE LIKE A WAREHOUSING OR MM-HMM . YEAH. BUT I THINK A BUSINESS PARK, I THINK OF SOMETHING THAT SEVERAL ACRES COULD BE, COULD BE NO DOUBT. WELL, ON HIGHWAY, THE ONE THING I THAT POPS IN MY HEAD IS ON HIGHWAY THREE. UH, THERE'S AN OFFICE BUILDING, BUT IT'S MORE FOR MULTI-USE. I'M TRYING TO THINK OF, UM, IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO THE THEATER OR OVER THERE. I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. UM, AND IT, IT'S, BUT ROBERT, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE, I KNOW THE LOT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT I STILL GO WHAT'S DIFFERENT FROM GENERAL COMMERCIAL ON THAT? NOTHING REALLY ON THAT ONE. BUT THAT'S KIND OF, IF YOU'RE THINKING OF THE ARCHITECTURE, THE STYLE OF IT, IT'S, IT'S THE IDEA, RIGHT? IT'S, I'M, I'M GONNA MAKE A, A STATEMENT FOR YOU GUYS TO KICK AROUND. I FEEL LIKE THIS IS ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE JUST SIMPLY DELETED FROM THE UDC BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE ANY TODAY OR IN THE FUTURE. DO WE HAVE ANY SPACE WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS OF DICKINSON TO PUT A BUSINESS PARK THAT'S NOT GONNA BE EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS GENERAL COMMERCIAL. TO ME, IT'S JUST BUSYING IT. THAT'S EXACTLY WHY I ASKED IF THERE WAS A LOT SIZE OR ANCHORAGE SIZE OR SOMETHING IN THIS CATEGORY. THAT'S EXACTLY WHY I ASKED THAT. SO THAT'S MY RECOMMENDATION. ANYBODY AGREE OR DISAGREE? YEAH. THAT'S OKAY. I AGREE WITH YOU. I AGREE. JUST DELETE IT. I WOULDN'T DISAGREE. OKAY. THAT'S OUR, OUR RECOMMENDATION, SIR, ON THAT ONE. GOING ON TO THE LAST ONE, WHICH IS INDUSTRIAL. INDUSTRIAL. YOU NEED, CAN YOU PUT THE LITTLE CIRCLES UP, SIR? YES. YOU'RE WELCOME. YOU'RE RIGHT ON THE RIGHT. NAIL RIGHT THERE. YOU I, FOR THE SAME QUESTION I ASKED BEFORE, IS THERE A ACREAGE SIZE OR A LOT SIZE FOR THAT CATEGORY ON INDUSTRIAL? YEAH. THE ONLY THING THAT I WOULD SAY, YES. AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE ANYTHING, BUT WE WILL HAVE INDUSTRIAL IN OUR CITY AND THAT IS GONNA BE THE PLANT. YEAH. PEN RICO. YEAH. WHY WOULD MUSEUMS BE IN INDUSTRIAL? YOU CAN PUT 'EM THERE. MM-HMM . HAVE SOMEDAY IF THEY LEVEL PEN RICO AND THAT PROPERTY CAN'T BE DEVELOPED FOR ANYTHING ELSE. HEY, WE CAN PUT AN AQUARIUM IN THERE. KIND OF GOING DOWN A RABBIT HOLE WITH THAT ONE. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. MAYBE IT'S SQUARE FEET, BUT CORRECT. TRAVIS IS PEN RICO THE ONLY INDUSTRIAL IN CITY? IS THAT THE ONE BACK HERE? UH, CALUMET. YEAH. YEAH. IT'S, SORRY, THAT'S THE OLD, OLD NAME FOR IT. YEAH, I GOT YOU. WE GOT THAT ONE. CALT. WE GOT THE WATER DISTRICT. THEY HAVE THEIR LITTLE FACILITY OVER THERE. BUT THAT'S, THAT'S THERE'S A SPOT TO THE NORTH ON HIGHWAY THREE IT LOOKS LIKE. UH, IS THAT WHERE THE UH, THE, UH, THE MULCH PLACE IS? THAT'S OUTTA CITY LIMITS? I DON'T KNOW. IT'S ON THE MAP. IT'S THE NORTHERN BORDER. OH, YOU'RE LOOKING AT JUST STRAIGHT ZONING DISTRICTS. I GOT YOU. WHAT DO WE HAVE THAT'S IN INDUSTRIAL? UH, SO THIS IS PUBLIC WORKS. OKAY. YEAH, PUBLIC WORKS. WHAT'S ON THE WEST SIDE OF ? OH, OKAY. THIS IS PLANE DEVELOPMENT AVENUE. YEAH. THE INDUSTRIAL IS THIS DARKER PURPLE. MM-HMM . THAT'S THE, UH, SCROLL IN ON THAT PLEASE. COMPANY. YEAH. SO I THINK PART OF THIS IS THE WATER DISTRICT. UH, AND YOU COULD HAVE CHURCHES THERE WITHOUT APPROVAL, BUT THERE'S NO LAND THERE FOR CHURCHES. SO IT'S, SO, BUT THAT, UH, THAT AREA THAT TIES INTO PARK ROAD ON PARK STREET ON THE RIGHT. MM-HMM . THEY OWN THAT TOO. DOES PENIKA UH, CALED OWNS THAT ALSO. PROBABLY. WE CAN THAT LOT RIGHT THERE. YEAH, I KNOW WHERE WE'RE AT NOW. BOTH MY MAP WORKS. BUT ANYWAY, BUT BACK TO KIND OF THO THOSE BEING THE ONLY INDUSTRIAL IN THE CITY, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH WHATEVER WE HAVE ON THE LIST. 'CAUSE IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER. WE'LL LOOK AT THE, ROBERT, DO YOU SEE ANY POINT IN THE FUTURE ANYWHERE WITHIN DICKINSON CITY LIMITS THAT SOMETHING THAT RESEMBLES INDUSTRIAL COULD POTENTIALLY REAR ITS HEAD? NO, I, I'M NOT SEEN. 1266. THERE'S SOME AREAS OUT THERE BY THE SCHOOL. YEAH. BUT, UH, OUR, OUR CITY LIMITS END NOT VERY FAR DOWN. THAT, UH, RIGHT THERE BY DE ROAD WHERE THE K IS, THAT'S STILL KCS OUTSIDE CITY LIMITS. YEAH. ON HEATH ROAD. YEP. IT'S NOT IN DICKINSON CITY LIMITS. YOU TALKING ABOUT [03:30:01] THE KNIGHT OF COLUMBUS HALL? YEAH. YEAH. THAT'S IN GALVESTON COUNTY ONLY. IT'S WHAT? GALVESTON COUNTY ONLY. IT'S NOT IN THE CITY LIMITS. HEATH ROAD IS THE, UH, NORTHERN CITY LIMITS ON 1266. SO THOSE HOUSES THAT, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS MAP SHOWS. 12, 12 66 RIGHT HERE. YEAH. THIS IS, THIS IS NORTH OF DE THAT'S WHERE, UH, YEAH, THIS IS DE RIGHT HERE. UH, WELL ACTUALLY, YEAH. SO THE SILVER ANGLE'S RIGHT HERE. YEAH. WE ANNEX SOME MORE PROPERTY. 'CAUSE IT USED TO STOP RIGHT THERE AT DEETS. IT'S NORTH OF DEETS. WE GOT, YOU KNOW WHAT, I STAND CORRECTED. REMEMBER I WAS TALKING ABOUT WE DID THE, UH, PARCELS AND 99 PARCELS THAT WAS RIGHT UP THERE IN THIS, THIS INTERSECTION RIGHT HERE. AND THIS WAS ALL ZONED, UH, RESIDENTIAL FOR THE LONGEST TIME. AND IT WAS ALL COMMERCIAL. YOU KNOW, THOSE HOUSES DOWN THAT STREET BEHIND KC WERE ALL ONE ACRE LOSS OUT OUT OF DICKINSON. I THINK CASEY IS STILL OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS, CORRECT? I THINK IT'S ON 2020 SEVENTH. THEY'RE IN THE WATER DISTRICT THAT DICKINSON, BUT THEY'RE NOT IN CITY LIMITS AT DICKINSON. OKAY. AND YOU WANT TO HEAR YOUR HEAD EXPLODE ALL THIS STUFF TO THE RIGHT. IS TEXAS CITY THE BLUE? MM-HMM . TO THE, I THINK 1266 TO THE LEFT IS LEAGUE CITY. TO THE RIGHT IS TEXAS CITY. PARDON? IT GOES OVER ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE CITY. EVEN. UH, IT'S EXTRATERRITORIAL JURISDICTION. IT HASN'T BEEN ANNEXED YET, THOUGH. . AND THEY OFFERED TO FRICKING GIVE IT TO US ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO. AND COUNCIL JUST DRUG THEIR FEET AND DIDN'T WANNA DO IT. AND EVEN THE MAYOR OF LEAGUE CITY WAS ACTUALLY TALKING WITH US ABOUT, UH, DE ANNEXING A BUNCH OF PROPERTIES SOUTH OF 6 46, EXCEPT FOR VICTORY LAKES, OF COURSE. JUST SO THAT WE HAD A CLEANER BOUNDARY BETWEEN OUR PROPERTIES, WHICH INCLUDED, YOU KNOW, ST. EDMOND'S GREEN. YEAH. SO, BUT YEAH, THEY, THAT, THAT WENT NOWHERE. TOO SMART. THAT ONE'S STILL FRESH. THAT ONE. YEAH. A LITTLE RAW FROM THAT ONE, HUH? ALL RIGHT. UH, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLANNING DISTRICT, ANY QUESTIONS ON, UH, INDUSTRIAL PD? NO. OKAY, THEN WE HAVE MET THAT ON DEVELOPMENT, RIGHT? OR NOT? I THOUGHT WE ALREADY, OH, S**T. WE DIDN'T DO PD. DID WE? DID WE READ ELIMINATE? NO, WE DO NOT NEED TO INDU IT. IT, IT EXISTS. OKAY. BUT, UH, I DON'T SEE WHERE WE NEED ANY MODIFICATIONS TO IT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT GONNA CHANGE. OKAY. PD, EXCUSE ME. HIT IT WITH A BASEBALL BAT. IT SOUNDED LIKE. CAN WE SEE THE CIRCLES? SO WHICH ONE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? DENVER HUNTING. SO PLAN DEVELOPMENT IS THE LAST ZONING DISTRICT. UH, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY REPRESENTED IN THE CONSOLIDATED USE STATE. CONSOLIDATED USE TABLE. BAM. THAT WAS IT THERE. 'CAUSE IN ROWDY IT'S ALL ITEMS THAT HAVE CAME THAT HAVE PLATS THAT ARE STILL IN. RIGHT. SO THE STANDARD, THE STANDARDS FOR THOSE ARE GONNA BE DETERMINED WHEN THEY, THEY HAVE TO COME TO P AND Z AND COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL. SO EVERYTHING HAS TO COME. YES, MA'AM. OKAY. LIKE WHAT'S ALREADY ON HERE IS NO BIG DEAL THEN. YEAH. 'CAUSE THEY'RE GONNA HAVE 50 DIFFERENT DETAIL, 10 DIFFERENT ZONING AREAS IN THE SAME PLANNED AREA. THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT. THAT WHOLE SUBDIVISION, UH, ON THE WEST SIDE WHERE THEY'RE DEVELOPING HOUSING, BUT ALSO SETTING UP, UH, COMMERCIAL AREAS AS PART OF THE PLANNING. GOTCHA. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, UH, BEFORE WE, BEFORE WE ADJOURN, UM, TRAVIS AGAIN, UH, IF EVERYBODY IS IN AGREEMENT, THREE MORE WORK SESSIONS, PLEASE. RIGHT ON. WELL, LET'S, LET'S SET THE FIRST ONE WHILE WE'RE HERE. OKAY. MY ANSWER IS YOU TELL ME WHEN AND I'LL TRY TO MAKE MYSELF AVAILABLE. . YEAH. THAT'S JUST HOW IT WORKS FOR ME. I'M SORRY. LET'S GET ONE KNOCKED OUT. DO YOU WANNA GET ONE KNOCKED OUT NEXT WEEK OR SO? WITH, WITH THAT STATEMENT, TRAVIS, TODAY BEING, UH, NOVEMBER 8TH, COUNSEL IS PROBABLY GOING TO PASS NEXT WEEK THAT THEY'RE ONLY GONNA HAVE ONE MEETING IN NOVEMBER AND ONE MEETING IN DECEMBER. 'CAUSE THAT'S USUALLY WHAT THEY DO EVERY YEAR. SO MY QUESTION IS, HOW MUCH DO WE NEED TO GET OVERLY AGGRESSIVE AS WE ARE ALSO HEADING INTO THANKSGIVING AND CHRISTMAS SEASON FOR OURSELVES? I KNOW I'M GONNA BE TRAVELING OVER THANKSGIVING AND NO TELLING WHAT STATE I'LL BE IN IN CHRISTMAS WEEK. SO WE'RE, WE'RE RUNNING INTO A VERY TIGHT SCHEDULE OVER THE NEXT EIGHT WEEKS OF PEOPLE'S LIVES. MM-HMM . SO I AM COMPLETELY DEDICATED TO MAKING SURE WE ALL GET HERE AND DO OUR JOBS, BUT ALSO WE NEED TO BE VERY COGNIZANT OF, IT'S GONNA BE HARD FOR US ALL TO GET TOGETHER FOR THE NEXT EIGHT WEEKS. NO DOUBT. WELL, UH, I'D LIKE TO KNOCK IT OUT THIS YEAR. . UM, THAT'S JUST ME. YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO KNOCK IT OUT THIS YEAR. SO IF WE HAD TWO MORE, ONE IN NOVEMBER, ONE IN DECEMBER, WOULD THAT BE THE WORST THING? I APPRECIATE YOUR ENTHUSIASM, [03:35:02] BUT I CAN TELL YOU IN ADVANCE RIGHT NOW, IT'S GONNA BE PHENOMENALLY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO MAKE THAT FOR HALF A DAY EACH DAY. EACH TIME. YEAH. IT'S, IT'S GETTING WORSE BY THE MINUTE. LIKE I SAID, I'M SUPPOSED TO BE THREE PLACES ALREADY THIS AFTERNOON. YEAH. THIS HAS ACTUALLY TAKING ABOUT TWO HOURS LONGER THAN I EXPECTED. UH, WHAT IF I SUGGESTED MAYBE FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS YEAR, WE PUT AN ITEM ON THE END OF, UH, THE AGENDA FOR THE ALREADY PLANNED P AND Z MEETINGS ON TUESDAYS, AND MAYBE WE JUST SPEND AN HOUR, A SHORTER AMOUNT OF TIME ON THAT UNTIL NEXT YEAR AND WE CAN GET A, A BIGGER WORKSHOP. YEAH. AND, AND DEBORAH IN LINE, IN LINE WITH THAT. I AGREE WITH YOU. I WOULD LOVE TO GET IT WRAPPED UP ABOUT FORECLOSE A YEAR ALSO. YEAH. BUT THE REALITY IS ALSO A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT WE COME UP WITH IS NOT GONNA BE EVEN LOOKED AT BY COUNCIL UNTIL PROBABLY LATE JANUARY AT BEST. YEAH. IT'S, UM, SO I MEAN, IT DOESN'T RE YOU KNOW, REDUCE OUR RESPONSIBILITIES. YEAH. I MEAN, MY DEAL'S MY DEAL. I DON'T, YOU KNOW, UM, BUT OKAY, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING MAKES SENSE. DO AN HOUR AT THE END OF EACH MEETING FOR THE NEXT TWO MEETINGS, RIGHT? MM-HMM . YES MA'AM. GOING ON THE 18TH, RIGHT? YES, SIR. THAT MATTER. WE, WE, INSTEAD OF GOING BY AREA, WE GO BY TIME WE'LL TAKE ONE HOUR, GET DONE WHAT WE GET DONE IN THAT HOUR, OKAY? MM-HMM . WE CALL IT SUSAN, WE KEEP DRIVING FORWARD. AND IF WE CAN, DEBORAH IN LINE WITH WHAT YOU JUST SAID, I CAN HIT PROBABLY TWO OR THREE MORE MEETINGS. IF I ONLY HAVE LIKE AN HOUR, I CAN'T DO TWO OR THREE MORE, THREE OR FOUR HOUR MEETINGS. THERE'S NO WAY. GOTCHA. BUT IF WE HIT AN HOUR HERE, HOUR THERE, AND I LIVE FIVE MINUTES FROM HERE, IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. SO ARE WE MEETING AT SIX OR SIX 30 NOW? YOU, YOU KEEP SIX 30, CHANGING SIX 30. IT WAS, THE REQUEST DURING THE MEETING WAS SIX 30. OKAY. MM-HMM . ALRIGHT. WHICH FEELS LIKE MIDNIGHT ANYWAY, RIGHT? HUH? I THOUGHT I WAS OFF. I SHOWED UP AT SIX. I WAS LIKE I KNOW. I MEAN, YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE AN OVERACHIEVER AND THEN, THEN, THEN THE ONE AFTER THAT OUR CARS CAME IN. THAT WAS A NICE MEETING. . I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN. I'M NOT CLEAR WHEN OUR NEXT MEETING'S GONNA BE. IT'S GONNA BE AN HOUR AFTER OUR NEXT MEETING. OKAY. IN NOVEMBER. AND THEN AN HOUR AFTER THE NEXT MEETING IN DECEMBER. AND THEN WHATEVER'S LEFT, WE'LL PUSH OVER, I GUESS UNTIL A WORKSHOP IN JANUARY. I WOULD IMAGINE. DON'T, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY WAY WE CAN GET THIS DONE IN TWO HOURS. YEAH, NO, WE WON'T. SO WHATEVER'S LEFT WE DO IN JANUARY, BASICALLY DEDICATING THE HOURS, NOT NECESSARILY THE ACCOMPLISHMENT. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA WORK TOWARD. OKAY. ALRIGHT. I GOT A MOTION. SECOND. YES SIR. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. I'M OUT. AYE. AYE. THAT'S KIND OF LARGE ACREAGE PROPERTY GENERALLY. OKAY. BASICALLY EVERYTHING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BAYOU. YEAH. THAT'S WHAT'S LABELED THERE. WHERE IS THAT ONE OR MORE? YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S ONE OF MY LOTS. LIKE 0.98 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. REALLY? WHERE DO YOU BEEN THAT TRAVIS? RIGHT BEHIND, ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME. MM-HMM . LITERALLY HE WAS MY, ACROSS THE STREET NEIGHBOR. OH. VERY POPULAR NEIGHBOR. ONE TIME WE HAD TWO COUNCILMEN, THREE P AND Z GUYS. PLEASE DON'T PLAY . NO, WE GOT THE PRESIDENT OF NO. HEY, NOBODY'S LIVES ON THE EAST SIDE WITH ME. I'M IN THE, I'M IN, WELL I MOVED OVER TO THE WEST SIDE, SO I HANG OUT WITH . WELL, THE PRESIDENT OF THE FRICKING UH, THE, UH, SCHOOL BOARD SCHOOL BOARD LIVES AROUND THE CORNER FROM US TOO. YEAH. YEP. OKAY. WELL, I'M JUST SAYING I, MY AREA NEEDS TO BE UP RIGHT THERE. OUR STREETS ARE STILL CRACKED. YEAH. I GOTTA HELP . I GOT A HELL OF A DITCH PEOPLE END UP IN. I'M JUST SAYING. SO TRAVIS, I'M GONNA ASK YOU TO GIVE ME A, A READER'S DIGEST VERSION EXPLANATION OF WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL IN GENERAL COMMERCIAL AUTOCENTRIC. I THINK WE CHANGED AUTOCENTRIC TO GENERAL BECAUSE I'M, I'M SCROLLING THROUGH THIS AND I'M GOING, WE, WE READY TO START, RIGHT? YEAH. YES SIR. OH, I'M SORRY. YEAH. YEAH. MAKE SURE YOUR MICS ARE ON. HUH? GOT IT. YEAH. SO THE QUESTION, TRAVIS, FOR THE RECORD IS WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SMALL SCALE AND AUTOCENTRIC, WHICH WE HAVE REQUESTED BE CHANGED TO GENERAL? GOTCHA. UH, SO SMALL SCALE IS, IS OBVIOUSLY [03:40:01] PER NAME MUCH SMALLER SCALE THAN DEVELOPMENT THAN WHAT AUTOCENTRIC, UH, ALLOWS FOR. YOU JUST MOVED. WHAT DOES IT, SORRY. OH SEE, YEAH, THEY'RE MOST LIKELY LOCATED IN NEIGHBORHOOD ENTRANCES, BUT I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE EVER HAD THAT LIMITING FACTOR ON AUTOCENTRIC. SO I THINK IF WE LOOK AT THIS IS PROBABLY GONNA TELL US THAT THIS DISTRICT WAS SIMILAR TO THAT UH, NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICT Y'ALL HAD. ALRIGHT. THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE, RIGHT? YEAH. OKAY. THEY'D BE LIKE LITTLE OFFICE BUILDINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SC IS SIMILAR. SO IF YOU PUT THE LITTLE, UH, BUBBLE THINGS UP, WHATEVER YOU CALLED IT, WE CAN SEE. UM, OKAY. IT'S ALRIGHT. WE'RE IN THIS COLUMN HERE. YEAH. IT PERMITS THIS. SO LIVE WORK. LIVE WORK. UPPER STORY RESIDENTIAL. OKAY. ASSISTED LIVING NURSING HOME. AND SO THESE ARE, THESE ARE USES THAT SHOULD NOT IMPACT, YOU KNOW, ADJACENT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS, UH, TOO MUCH VERSUS, YOU KNOW, AUTOCENTRIC WITH LIKE CAR DEALERSHIPS, YOU KNOW, LARGER COMMERCIAL RESERVES, ASSISTED LIVING SCHOOLS, YOU KNOW, LIFE HOUSING, GOVERNMENT FACILITIES, UH, MEDICAL CLINIC, DENTAL OFFICE. AND SO APPARENTLY THAT'S WHERE WE CAN HAVE OUR GOVERNMENT OFFICES. CORRECT. MEDICAL, CLINICAL PARKS, OPEN AREAS. SO PERMITS, BARS, NIGHTCLUBS, TAVERNS WITH, UH, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT THROUGH COUNSEL. OH. WHY WOULD YOU HAVE A BAR IN, IN, WHY WOULD YOU HAVE THAT IN A, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD AREA? THAT WAY YOU COULD WALK TO THE BAR AND HAVE A BEER AND WALK HOME TRYING TO D DOWN ON DWIS. YEAH. . SO IN LINE, I THINK, AND TRAVIS, THESE ARE ALL OFFICIALLY COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, BUT SOME ARE CLOSER TO NEIGHBORHOODS THAN OTHERS. AND SO THIS WOULD BE NEIGHBORHOOD, YEAH. IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO OPEN A TAVERN THAT IS ADJACENT TO A NEIGHBORHOOD, TECHNICALLY IT MEETS THE EXPECTATIONS, BUT THERE MIGHT BE A LOT OF POLITICS TO IT. SO MAYBE THAT'S THE ONE THAT HAS TO BE REVIEWED BY COUNCIL FOR YAY OR NAY. THANK YOU. I AGREE WITH THAT, DON'T YOU? MM-HMM . THAT'S SOLICIT. YES SIR. IS IT, LET ME SEE. IT IS LISTED THAT IT REQUIRES COUNCIL APPROVAL. OKAY. WHAT? UM, HOLD ON. BUT I WOULD ASK THE QUESTION. GAME ROOM OR A MUSIC REDEMPTION MACHINE. UH, NEVERMIND. DISREGARD. DISREGARD. IT'S NOT ALLOWED IN THAT. YEAH, I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE GAME ROOM BEING INSIDE A POTENTIAL TAVERN, BUT DISREGARD. YEAH. THOSE ARE ACCESSORY USES. UH, SO WE DO PERMIT, UH, FORGIVE ME, IT'S EITHER FIVE OR SEVEN MACHINES. IT'S STATE LAW. WHAT'S A, A REDEMPTION MACHINE? THAT'S WHERE YOU, UH, CASTING YOUR TICKETS. YOU DON'T GET PAID. YOU GET PRIZES. THINK OF AN ADULT. CHUCK E CHEESE. YES. I LIKE THE MAIN EVENT. MM-HMM . BANKS OFFICES. BED AND BREAKFAST FOOD TRUCK COURTS, UH, RESTAURANTS, LIQUOR STORE WITH COUNCIL APPROVAL. IT'S ON THE WRONG LINE. OKAY. I'M NOT SEEING ANY ISSUES WITH THIS ONE. DOES ANYBODY SEE ANYTHING JUMPING UP, SCREAMING AT HIM? MM-HMM. NOT NECESSARILY. NO FUEL OVERHEAD. NO FUEL CELLS. THAT'S CORRECT. YOU WANT SOME GAS STATIONS UP ON BY MY NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE SARCASM. OKAY. SO THAT'S A GOOD POINT. LET'S LOOK, LET'S LOOK WHAT AREAS ARE ACTUALLY ZONED AS, UH, SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL. WHAT COLOR IS IT? IT IS GONNA BE THIS ORANGE. WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO, FOR ORANGE IT'S . OH, . . SO THERE'S NOT A LOT. YOU GOT SOME, UH, OUT HERE. THIS IS IN FRONT OF BAYOU LAKES. MM-HMM . [03:45:01] YOU GOT SOME HERE ON FIVE 17. THAT'S ACROSS FROM UH, PAUL HOPKINS, ISN'T IT? YEAH. CORRECT. YEP. UH, YOU GOT THIS LITTLE PIECE THAT'S AT DIETS AND OAK. I KNOW THAT'S BEEN A HOT TOPIC. DIETS ROAD. MM-HMM . THAT'S THE ONE. UH, WHERE THE GAS, UH, THE, UH, GROCERY STORE IS. THAT'S CLOSED. I DON'T SEE THAT. NO. I THINK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ONE UP HERE BY LOGAN, RIGHT? YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. YEAH. THAT'S OVER LOW. MY BAD. THIS IS, THIS IS DECENT OAK. OAK SHOULD NEVER BE THAT AT ALL. THAT SHOULD BE RESIDENTIAL. IT'S ALL RESIDENTIAL THERE. YEAH. YEAH. CURRENTLY THIS LOT IS VACANT. UH, THIS HOME IS ACTUALLY IN THE PROCESS OF BEING ELEVATED TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE WITH FEMA REGULATIONS. AND THESE OTHER LOTS ARE EXISTING RESIDENTIAL USES. YEAH. IS THAT ONE ON THE, IT'S RESIDENTIAL. YOU'RE SAYING THAT THAT CAN BE A GAS STATION NOW? NO. MM. THERE'S HOUSES ON THESE LOTS ALREADY, CORRECT? YEAH. THESE ARE SMALL. ALL EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE. YES, SIR. THESE ARE ALL SMALL SCALE. THIS IS SMALL SCALE RESIDENTIAL. YEAH. I'M JUST GOING, WHY WOULD WE MAKE THOSE COMMERCIAL IF THERE'S ALREADY RESIDENCES ON IT? SO THE, THE ANSWER TO THAT WOULD BE THAT THE, THE ADOPTED COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP SUPPORT THAT, THAT 2045, THE VISION FOR THE FUTURE IS TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, UH, IN THIS LOCATION OFF OF DEETS. 'CAUSE IN REALITY DE GOES WAY. AND THAT IS A QUESTION THAT'S NOT YEAH, THAT'S LOT. ISN'T THAT SOUTH? SOUTH? YES. THIS, THIS ONE IS CURRENTLY VACANT NORTHWEST. THAT'S CORRECT. DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET. SOUNDS. OH, THERE'S A HOUSE THERE. THIS ONE. THERE'S A HOUSE THERE. YES SIR. YEAH, THERE'S A, IT'S A PRETTY LARGE LOT, BUT THERE IS A HOUSE A LOT. YEAH. YEAH. SO THESE WERE DEFINITELY A STRUGGLE FOR ME WHEN I WAS LIKE, WHY IS COMMERCIAL RIGHT HERE WHEN THESE ARE HOMES? BECAUSE THE, THEY'RE ALL RESIDENTIAL HOMES AND I EVEN THINK A COUPLE BOUGHT THAT ONE ON THE CORNER AND THEY USED TO SIT OUT AND LOOK AT THE BAYOU AND THOUGHT ABOUT THE HOME THEY WERE GONNA BUILD THERE. AND THEN IT WENT UP FOR SALE. 'CAUSE THEY REALIZED I COULDN'T BUILD A HOUSE THERE. UM, SO IT WAS, I THINK IT WAS A LITTLE SHOCK. I DIDN'T HELP 'EM BUY IT, BUT I REMEMBER DRIVING BY AND THEY PUT SOME PLANTS OUT FRONT AND THEY WERE REALLY JUST, AND ONE DAY THEY WERE SITTING OUT ON THEIR LAND AND, AND SUCH THAT'S THAT, THAT I GUESS WEST CORNER ONE. AND WITH THE ZONING CHANGE, OF COURSE NOW IT'S UP FOR SALE AGAIN. AND I FIND THAT ASININE. THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF OPPOSITION TO THAT. AN AWFUL LOT, I THINK. AND JUST TO CAN COME FROM THE OTHER SIDE. THE PURPOSE WAS 20, 30 YEARS FROM NOW, OR IT COULD BE IN FIVE YEARS, A STORM COMES THROUGH AND TEARS DOWN A HOME. NOW THAT THE WHOLE IDEA IS YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE REBUILDING A HOME THERE. YOU'LL BE PUTTING SOMETHING THAT'S SOME KIND OF COMMERCIAL BUILDING THERE. AND I, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT WEST POINT. SO I PUT MY HOUSE THERE. WE HAVE A HARVEY, MY HOUSE FLOODS, AND THE CITY TELLS ME I CAN'T BUILD MY HOUSE BACK. WELL HERE, GO BACK HERE UP TO A CERTAIN POINT. SO HERE, HERE'S THE DEAL. DEETS IS, IS A THOROUGHFARE. MM-HMM . MM-HMM . AND SO YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE COMMERCIAL THERE. DIET A THOROUGHFARE. DEET IS A, IS A NO. YEAH, BUT I MEAN, DON'T GO ONE OF OUR LARGER, LARGER ONES. THANK YOU. IT'S STRAIGHT. LET'S LOOK STRAIGHT THROUGH AT THE PROPOSED NEW THOROUGHFARE PLAN BECAUSE IT'S SAY WHAT? IT WELL, I WAS GONNA PULL UP THIS PROPOSED THOROUGHFARE PLAN TO SEE IF IT SHOWED, SO YOU ALSO PROPOSED THAT AREA, UH, GRAND PARKWAY COMING THROUGH. YEAH. SO THIS IS GONNA BE ANOTHER AVENUE, JUST LIKE FIVE 17 IS AS ANOTHER THAT'S, THAT'S THE WAY I'M LOOKING AT IT, IS BECAUSE IT COMES FROM THE FEEDER. YEP. IT GOES ALL THE WAY PAST HIGHWAY THREE. THAT'S PAST EVERYTHING ELSE. THAT'S IT. YEAH. AND IT GOES ALL THE WAY THROUGH I 45 ALSO DEETS. IT GOES TO THE WEST SIDE. CORRECT. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING IT. BUT IT'S, WE SEE THAT'S GONNA BE A FARM TO MARKET ROAD EVER. YOU DON'T THINK THAT'S A THOROUGHFARE ROAD GOING TO BE? BUT THE USE OF IT IS. IT'S WHAT YOU TAKE TO AVOID THE I 45 INTERSECTION . CORRECT. WHEN YOU WANT TO GET AROUND THAT TRAFFIC, I MEAN, YOU COULD PUT SUNSET IN THE SAME CATEGORY AND IF YOU PUT A BRIDGE ACROSS THE BAYOU, THEN IT'S THE, IT'S THE NEXT DETS ROAD. MM-HMM . IT'S RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A RESIDENTIAL AREA. I, AND CUT AND DRY. IT'S, EVERYBODY'S HOMES ARE FACING THAT. MM-HMM . YEAH. SO IT'S NOT, AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE, THE LOGIC CAME. YEAH. I DON'T, I DON'T LOOK AT THAT AREA AS COMMERCIAL. WELL, IT'S NOT, THEY'RE LOOKING AT IT MORE LIKE NA NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL. OKAY. SO I'M GOING TO THROW IT. WE'RE WE'RE INTO OUR NEXT MEETING CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW TO DEBATE THIS STUFF. ALL RIGHT. SO SCROLLING OUT, IT'S STILL, I STILL DON'T COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING I KNOW ABOUT THIS, UH, SMALL, UH, THIS NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL. I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. LOTS OF SENSE. BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC BEHIND IT. I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT WE HAD NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL BACK IN THE DAY AND IT WAS VERY COMPARABLE TO WHAT YOU'RE [03:50:01] TALKING ABOUT. BACK OFF OF, OFF OF DEETS ROAD, OFF OF SUNSET, UH, A MULTITUDE OF, UH, YEAH, TALK ABOUT DEETS ROAD, GOING EAST OF THE RAILROAD TRACKS. THERE'S A LOT OF COMMERCIAL PROPERTY IN THERE THAT ALL FELL IN THE CATEGORY OF NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL. 'CAUSE IT DID BACK UP TO SUBDIVISIONS AND IT WASN'T THE QUINTESSENTIAL DEFINITION OF COMMERCIAL. SO THAT BEING SAID, WE CAN DEBATE WHERE THESE ORANGE SPOTS CAN BE AT THE NEXT MEETING. MM-HMM . BUT I THINK FOR RIGHT NOW, THE QUESTION IS UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS SMALL IS BASICALLY GONNA THINK ABOUT COMMERCIAL THAT BACKS UP TO SUBDIVISIONS. THAT IS NOT YOUR MAIN, UH, HIGHWAY MAIN COMMERCIAL TYPE ENVIRONMENTS. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT I DID NOT MAKE THAT VERY CLEAR. SORRY ABOUT THAT. SO WHAT WE SHOULD GO BACK TO THE CIRCLES. UM, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE, YOUR HONOR, WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT NOW IS WHAT'S, IT'S WHAT ALLOWED, WHAT'S ALLOWED IN THAT CATEGORY. SO WE'RE, WE'RE OKAY WITH WHAT'S ALLOWED IN THAT CATEGORY. ALL IN ALL I AM. I THINK WE WHERE WE ARE. I SCREWED. SCROLL DOWN THERE. SO NEXT CATEGORY IS AC. WE'VE ALREADY DEALT WITH BP, BRITISH, PATROLLER, , UH, WE DON'T HAVE TO DO BP 'CAUSE WE DON'T ONLY HAVE ONE. RIGHT? WELL, YOU YEAH, BUT YOU'RE, I I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. SOMEDAY WE WILL BUSINESS PARK. I MEAN THEY, THERE, THERE'S COLORS FOR IT ON YOUR MAP, RIGHT? HUH? WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING A ALLOCATED THERE. IT IS ON THE LEGEND, BUT THERE IS, IT IS NOT REPRESENTED ON THE MAP BECAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S NOTHING THAT IS ZONED OUT. THERE'S NOTHING SAYING THAT GOING DOWN HIGHWAY THREE WON'T BE RIGHT. BUT IF, IF THAT IS, THERE'S NO CURRENT BP ON THE, IN ZONING ON THE MAP. SO WE'LL UP THE, THE LITTLE CIRCLE THING AGAIN, YOU KNOW, 20 YEARS FROM NOW WE'RE GONNA SAY THAT PULL UP THE LITTLE CIRCLE THING AND WE'RE ALL GONNA KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. I KNOW. GO SHUSH. OKAY, SO MOST OF THE STUFF IS NOT ALLOWED IN THE LITTLE CIRCLE THING. GO DOWN. OH, HOLD ON. UM, BUSINESS PARK. WHERE ARE WE LOOKING AT NOW? PP, YEAH. BP, BRAVO, PAPA. SO COMMUNITY FACILITIES, UH, MUSEUMS, LIBRARIES. WHOOP, WHOOP, DAYCARE, DAYCARE CARE WITH TRAVIS. DOES THAT HAVE A MINIMUM? BP, DOES IT HAVE A MINIMUM ACREAGE OR LOT SIZE? LET'S LOOK AT THAT. SO IT LOOKS LIKE THE ANSWER, TODA IS NO, THERE IS NOT A MINIMUM LOT AREA OR WIDTH. UH, HAS A MAXIMUM BUILDING COVERAGE. LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE GOING FOR OPEN, OPEN SPACE THERE. SO I WOULD ASSUME IT'D BE LIKE A WAREHOUSING OR MM-HMM . YEAH. BUT I THINK A BUSINESS PARK, I THINK OF SOMETHING THAT SEVERAL ACRES COULD BE, COULD NO DOUBT. WELL, ON HIGHWAY, THE ONE THING I THAT POPS IN MY HEAD IS ON HIGHWAY THREE. UH, THERE'S AN OFFICE BUILDING, BUT IT'S MORE FOR MULTI-USE. I'M TRYING TO THINK OF, UM, IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO THE THEATER OR OVER THERE. I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. UM, AND IT'S, BUT SIDE, ROBERT, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I KNOW THE, A LOT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT I STILL GO WHAT'S DIFFERENT FROM GENERAL COMMERCIAL ON THAT? NOTHING REALLY ON THAT ONE. BUT THAT'S KIND OF, IF YOU'RE THINKING OF THE ARCHITECTURE OR THE STYLE OF IT, IT'S, IT'S THE IDEA. RIGHT? IT'S, I'M, I'M GONNA MAKE A, A STATEMENT FOR YOU GUYS TO KICK AROUND. I FEEL LIKE THIS IS ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE JUST SIMPLY DELETED FROM THE UDC BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE ANY TODAY OR IN THE FUTURE. DO WE HAVE ANY SPACE WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS OF DICKINSON TO PUT A BUSINESS PARK THAT'S NOT GONNA BE EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS GENERAL COMMERCIAL. TO ME IT'S JUST BUSYING IT. THAT'S EXACTLY WHY I ASKED IF THERE WAS A LOT SIZE OR ANCHORAGE SIZE OR SOMETHING IN THIS CATEGORY. THAT'S EXACTLY WHY I ASKED THAT. SO THAT'S MY RECOMMENDATION. ANYBODY AGREE OR DISAGREE? YEAH. THAT'S OKAY. I AGREE WITH YOU. I AGREE. JUST DELETE IT. I WOULDN'T DISAGREE. OKAY. THAT'S OUR, OUR RECOMMENDATION, SIR, ON THAT ONE. GOING ON TO THE LAST ONE, WHICH IS INDUSTRIAL. INDUSTRIAL, WE NEED, CAN YOU PUT THE LITTLE CIRCLES UP, SIR? YES. YOU'RE WELCOME. YOU'RE RIGHT ON THE RIGHT. NAIL RIGHT THERE WITH, FOR THE SAME QUESTION I ASKED BEFORE, IS THERE AN ACREAGE SIZE OR A LOT SIZE FOR THAT CATEGORY ON INDUSTRIAL? YEAH. THE ONLY THING THAT I WOULD SAY, YES. AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE ANYTHING, BUT WE WILL HAVE INDUSTRIAL IN OUR CITY AND THAT IS GONNA BE THE PLANT. YEAH. RI RICO. YEAH. WHY WOULD MUSEUMS BE IN INDUSTRIAL? YOU CAN PUT 'EM THERE. MM-HMM . SOMEDAY IF THEY LEVEL PEN RICO AND THAT PROPERTY CAN'T BE DEVELOPED FOR ANYTHING ELSE. HEY, WE CAN PUT AN AQUARIUM IN THERE. KIND OF GOING DOWN [03:55:01] A RABBIT HOLE WITH THAT ONE. YEAH. YEAH. MAYBE SQUARE FEET, BUT CORRECT. TRAVIS IS PEN RICO THE ONLY INDUSTRIAL IN CITY? IS THAT THE ONE BACK HERE? UH, CALUME. YEAH. YEAH, IT'S, SORRY, THAT'S THE OLD, OLD NAME FOR IT. YEAH, I GOT YOU. WE GOT THAT ONE. CATE. WE GOT THE WATER DISTRICT. THEY HAVE THEIR LITTLE FACILITY OVER THERE. BUT THAT'S, THAT'S THERE'S A SPOT TO THE NORTH ON HIGHWAY THREE IT LOOKS LIKE. UH, IS THAT WHERE THE UH, THE, UH, THE MULCH PLACE IS? THAT'S OUTTA CITY LIMITS? I DON'T KNOW. IT'S ON THE MAP. IT'S THE NORTHERN BORDER. OH, YOU'RE LOOKING AT JUST STRAIGHT ZONING DISTRICTS. I GOTCHA. WHOA. WHAT DO WE HAVE THAT'S IN INDUSTRIAL? UH, SO THIS IS PUBLIC WORKS. OKAY. YEAH, PUBLIC WORKS. WHAT'S ON THE WEST SIDE OF ? OH, OKAY. THAT IS PLANE DEVELOPMENT AVENUE. YEAH, THE INDUSTRIAL IS THIS DARKER PURPLE. MM-HMM . THAT'S THE, UH, SCROLL IN ON THAT PLEASE. COMPANY. YEAH. SO I THINK PART OF THIS IS THE WATER DISTRICT. UH, AND YOU COULD HAVE CHURCHES THERE WITHOUT APPROVAL, BUT THERE'S NO LAND THERE FOR CHURCHES. SO IT'S, SO, BUT THAT, UH, THAT AREA THAT TIES INTO PARK ROAD ON PARK STREET ON THE RIGHT. MM-HMM . THEY OWN THAT TOO. DOES PENIKA UH, CALED OWNS THAT ALSO. PROBABLY. WE CAN THAT LOT RIGHT THERE. YEAH, I KNOW WHERE WE'RE AT NOW. WELL, MY MAP WORKS, BUT ANYWAY, BUT BACK TO KIND OF THOSE, THOSE BEING THE ONLY INDUSTRIAL IN THE CITY. I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH WHATEVER WE HAVE ON THE LIST. 'CAUSE IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER. WE'LL LOOK AT THE, ROBERT, DO YOU SEE ANY POINT IN THE FUTURE ANYWHERE WITHIN DICKINSON CITY LIMITS THAT SOMETHING THAT RESEMBLES INDUSTRIAL COULD POTENTIALLY REAR ITS HEAD? NO, I, I'M NOT SEEN 1266. THERE'S SOME AREAS OUT THERE BY THE SCHOOL. YEAH. BUT, UH, OUR, OUR CITY LIMITS END NOT VERY FAR DOWN. THAT, UH, RIGHT THERE BY DET ROAD WHERE THE KC IS, THAT'S STILL THE KC IS OUTSIDE CITY LIMITS. YEAH. ON HUGHES ROAD. YEP. IT'S NOT IN DICKINSON CITY LIMITS. YOU TALKING ABOUT THE KNIGHT OF COLUMBUS HALL? YEAH. YEAH. THAT'S IN GALVESTON COUNTY ONLY. THAT'S WHAT GALVESTON COUNTY ONLY, IT'S NOT IN THE CITY LIMITS. EAST ROAD IS THE, UH, NORTHERN CITY LIMITS ON 1266. SO THOSE HAVE, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS MAP SHOWS. 1266 RIGHT HERE. YEAH. THIS IS, THIS IS NORTH OF DEE. THAT'S WHERE, UH, YEAH, THIS IS DEE'S RIGHT HERE. OH, WELL ACTUALLY, YEAH. SO THE SILVER ANGLE'S RIGHT HERE. YEAH. WE ANNEX SOME MORE PROPERTY. 'CAUSE IT USED TO STOP RIGHT THERE AT DEE. IT'S NORTH OF DEE. WE GOT, YOU KNOW WHAT, I STAND CORRECTED. REMEMBER I WAS TALKING ABOUT WE DID THE, UH, PARCELS AND 99 PARCELS THAT WAS RIGHT UP THERE IN THIS, THIS INTERSECTION RIGHT HERE. AND THIS WAS ALL ZONED, UH, RESIDENTIAL FOR THE LONGEST TIME. AND IT WAS ALL COMMERCIAL. NO, THOSE HOUSES DOWN THAT STREET BEHIND KC WERE ALL ONE ACRE LOCKS OUT OF DICKINS ENOUGH. I THINK KC IS STILL OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS. I THINK IT'S ON 2020 SEVENTH. CORRECT. THEY'RE IN THE WATER DISTRICT THAT DICKINSON BEEN, THEY'RE NOT IN CITY LIMITS AT DICKINSON. OKAY. AND YOU WANT TO HEAR YOUR HEAD EXPLODE ALL THIS STUFF TO THE RIGHT. IS TEXAS CITY THE BLUE? MM-HMM . TO THE, I THINK 1266 TO THE LEFT IS LEAGUE CITY. TO THE RIGHT IS TEXAS CITY. PARDON? IT GOES OVER ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE CITY. EVEN. UH, IT'S EXTRATERRITORIAL JURISDICTION. IT HASN'T BEEN ANNEXED YET, THOUGH. AND THEY OFFERED TO FRICKING GIVE IT TO US ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO. AND COUNCIL JUST DRUG THEIR FEET AND DIDN'T WANNA DO IT. AND EVEN THE MAYOR OF LEAGUE CITY WAS ACTUALLY TALKING WITH US ABOUT, UH, DE ANNEXING A BUNCH OF PROPERTIES SOUTH OF 6 46, EXCEPT FOR VICTORY LAKES, OF COURSE. JUST SO THAT WE HAD A CLEANER BOUNDARY BETWEEN OUR PROPERTIES, WHICH INCLUDED, YOU KNOW, ST. EDMOND'S GREEN. SO, BUT YEAH, THEY, THAT, THAT WENT NOWHERE. TOO SMART. THAT ONE'S STILL FRESH. THAT ONE. YEAH. A LITTLE RAW FROM THAT ONE, HUH? ALL RIGHT. UH, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLANNING DISTRICT, ANY QUESTIONS ON, UH, INDUSTRIAL PD? OKAY, THEN WE HAVE MET THAT ON DEVELOPMENT, RIGHT? OR NOT? I THOUGHT WE ALREADY, OH, S**T. WE DIDN'T DO PD, DID WE? DID WE RE ELIMINATE? NO, WE DO NOT NEED TO INDU IT. IT, IT EXISTS, BUT, UH, I DON'T SEE WHERE WE NEED ANY MODIFICATIONS TO IT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT GONNA CHANGE. OKAY. PD, EXCUSE ME. HIT IT WITH A BASEBALL BAT. IT SOUNDED LIKE. CAN [04:00:01] WE SEE THE CIRCLES? WHICH ONE, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT DEBORAH HUNTING? SO PLAN DEVELOPMENT IS THE LAST ZONING DISTRICT. UH, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY REPRESENTED IN THE CONSOLIDATED USE TABLE. CONSOLIDATED USE TABLE. BAM. THAT WAS IT ON THERE BECAUSE IN ROWDY IT'S ALL ITEMS THAT HAVE CAME THAT HAVE PLATS THAT ARE STILL IN. RIGHT. SO THE STANDARD, THE STANDARDS FOR THOSE ARE GONNA BE DETERMINED WHENEVER THEY HAVE TO COME TO P AND Z AND COUNSEL FOR APPROVAL. SO EVERYTHING HAS TO COME. YES, MA'AM. OKAY. LIKE WHAT'S ALREADY ON HERE IS NO BIG DEAL THEN TO YEAH. 'CAUSE THEY'RE GONNA HAVE 50 DIFFERENT DETAIL, 10 DIFFERENT ZONING AREAS IN THE SAME PLANNED AREA. THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, THAT WHOLE SUBDIVISION, UH, ON THE WEST SIDE WHERE THEY'RE DEVELOPING HOUSING, BUT ALSO SETTING UP, UH, COMMERCIAL AREAS AS PART OF THE PLANNING. GOTCHA. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, UH, BEFORE WE, BEFORE WE ADJOURN, UM, TRAVIS AGAIN, UH, IF EVERYBODY IS IN AGREEMENT, THREE MORE WORK SESSIONS, PLEASE. RIGHT ON. WELL, LET'S, LET'S SET THE FIRST ONE WHILE WE'RE HERE. OKAY. MY ANSWER IS YOU TELL ME WHEN AND I'LL TRY TO MAKE MYSELF AVAILABLE. . YEAH. THATS JUST HOW IT WORKS FOR ME. I'M SORRY. LET'S GET ONE KNOCKED OUT. DO YOU WANNA GET ONE KNOCKED OUT NEXT WEEK OR SO? WITH, WITH THAT STATEMENT, TRAVIS, TODAY BEING, UH, NOVEMBER 8TH, COUNSEL IS PROBABLY GOING TO PASS NEXT WEEK THAT THEY'RE ONLY GONNA HAVE ONE MEETING IN NOVEMBER AND ONE MEETING IN DECEMBER. 'CAUSE THAT'S USUALLY WHAT THEY DO EVERY YEAR. SO MY QUESTION IS, HOW MUCH DO WE NEED TO GET OVERLY AGGRESSIVE AS WE ARE ALSO HEADING INTO THANKSGIVING AND CHRISTMAS SEASON FOR OURSELVES? I KNOW I'M GONNA BE TRAVELING OVER THANKSGIVING AND NO TELLING WHAT STATE I'LL BE IN IN CHRISTMAS WEEK. SO WE'RE, WE'RE RUNNING INTO A VERY TIGHT SCHEDULE OVER THE NEXT EIGHT WEEKS OF PEOPLE'S LIVES. MM-HMM . SO I AM COMPLETELY DEDICATED TO MAKING SURE WE ALL GET HERE AND DO OUR JOBS, BUT ALSO WE NEED TO BE VERY COGNIZANT OF, IT'S GONNA BE HARD FOR US ALL TO GET TOGETHER FOR THE NEXT EIGHT WEEKS. NO DOUBT. WELL, I'D LIKE TO KNOCK IT OUT THIS YEAR. . UM, THAT'S JUST ME, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO KNOCK IT OUT THIS YEAR. SO IF WE HAD TWO MORE, ONE IN NOVEMBER, ONE IN DECEMBER, WOULD THAT BE THE WORST THING? I APPRECIATE YOUR ENTHUSIASM, BUT I CAN TELL YOU IN ADVANCE RIGHT NOW, IT'S GONNA BE IN PHENOMENALLY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO MAKE THAT FOR HALF A DAY EACH DAY. EACH TIME. YEAH. IT'S, IT'S GETTING WORSE BY THE MINUTE. LIKE I SAID, I'M SUPPOSED TO BE THREE PLACES ALREADY THIS AFTERNOON. YEAH. THIS HAS ACTUALLY TAKEN ABOUT TWO HOURS LONGER THAN I EXPECTED. UH, WHAT IF I SUGGESTED MAYBE FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS YEAR, WE PUT AN ITEM ON THE END OF, UH, THE AGENDA FOR THE ALREADY PLANNED P AND Z MEETINGS ON TUESDAYS AND MAYBE WE JUST SPEND AN HOUR, A SHORTER AMOUNT OF TIME ON THAT UNTIL NEXT YEAR AND WE CAN GET A, A BIGGER WORKSHOP. YEAH. AND, AND DEBORAH IN LINE, IN LINE WITH THAT. I AGREE WITH YOU. I WOULD LOVE TO GET IT WRAPPED UP ABOUT FOR CLOSE OF THE YEAR ALSO. YEAH. BUT THE REALITY IS ALSO A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT WE COME UP WITH IS NOT GONNA BE EVEN LOOKED AT BY COUNSEL UNTIL PROBABLY LATE JANUARY AT BEST. YEAH. IT'S NOT SO, I MEAN, IT DOESN'T RE YOU KNOW, REDUCE OUR RESPONSIBILITIES. YEAH. I MEAN, MY DEAL'S MY DEAL. I DON'T, YOU KNOW, UM, BUT OKAY, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING MAKES SENSE. DO AN HOUR AT THE END OF EACH MEETING FOR THE NEXT TWO MEETINGS, RIGHT? MM-HMM . YES MA'AM. WE GO ON THE 18TH, RIGHT? YES, SIR. THAT MATTER. WE, WE, INSTEAD OF GOING BY AREA, WE GO BY TIME WE'LL TAKE ONE HOUR, GET DONE WHAT WE GET DONE IN THAT HOUR, OKAY? MM-HMM . WE CALL SUSAN, WE KEEP DRIVING FORWARD. AND IF WE CAN, DEBORAH IN LINE WITH WHAT YOU JUST SAID, I CAN HIT PROBABLY TWO OR THREE MORE MEETINGS. IF I ONLY HAVE LIKE AN HOUR, I CAN'T DO TWO OR THREE MORE, THREE OR FOUR HOUR MEETINGS. THERE'S NO WAY. GOTCHA. BUT IF WE HIT AN HOUR HERE, HOUR THERE, AND I LIVE FIVE MINUTES FROM HERE, IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. SO ARE WE MEETING AT SIX OR SIX 30 NOW? YOU, YOU KEEP SIX 30, CHANGING SIX 30. IT WAS, THE REQUEST DURING THE MEETING WAS SIX 30. OKAY. MM-HMM . ALRIGHT. WHICH FEELS LIKE MIDNIGHT ANYWAY, RIGHT? HUH? I THOUGHT I WAS OFF. I SHOWED UP AT SIX. I WAS LIKE I KNOW. I MEAN, YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE OVERACHIEVER AND THEN, THEN, THEN, THEN THE ONE AFTER THAT IS THE, OUR CARS CAME IN. THAT WAS A NICE MEETING. . I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN. I'M NOT CLEAR WHEN OUR NEXT MEETING'S GONNA BE. IT'S GONNA BE AN HOUR AFTER OUR NEXT MEETING. OKAY. IN NOVEMBER, AND THEN AN HOUR AFTER THE NEXT MEETING IN DECEMBER. AND THEN WHATEVER'S LEFT, WE'LL PUSH OVER, I GUESS UNTIL YEAH. A WORKSHOP IN JANUARY I WOULD IMAGINE. I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY WAY WE CAN GET THIS DONE IN TWO HOURS. YEAH, NO, WE WON'T. SO WHATEVER'S LEFT WE DO IN JANUARY BASICALLY DEDICATING THE HOURS, NOT NECESSARILY THE ACCOMPLISHMENT. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA WORK TOWARD. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I GOT A MOTION. SECOND. YES SIR. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. I'M OUT. AYE. AYE. , THANK Y'ALL VERY MUCH AND ALSO WHEN YOU SEE MARJORIE, PLEASE [04:05:01] TELL GATORS THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR LUNCH. WHAT IS MAR MAR. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.