* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] WE WILL, UH, CALL TO ORDER [1. CALL TO ORDER AND CERTIFICATION OF A QUORUM] THE PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION MEETING FOR AUGUST 19TH, 2025. PLEASE, UH, CALL TO ORDER AND CERTIFICATE CERTIFICATION OF QUORUM. YES. SO THE TIME IS 6 0 2. BRUCE HENDERSON. HERE, MA'AM. MARJORIE MORGAN. HERE. DEBRA FORTNER. HERE. JOHN HARRIS. HERE. PHILLIP LIPOMA. HERE. STEPHANIE BROWN. WILLIAM BROWN. THE INVOCATION. SURE. WE HAVE A QUORUM. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IF YOU'LL JOIN ME IN THE INVOCATION OF PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE. JOHN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO LEAD THE PLEDGE? AND MS. DEBORAH WILL LEAD THE, UH, INVOCATION OUR HEAVENLY FATHER. WE JUST PRAISE YOUR NAME AND JUST THANK YOU THAT WE CAN COME TOGETHER AS A BOARD AND, UM, MAKE DECISIONS, UH, WITH YOUR WISDOM AND, UH, THAT AS A COMMUNITY WE CAN DO THIS. AND WE'RE ALLOWED TO DO IT BECAUSE, UH, PEOPLE STAND, UH, ALL OVER THE WORLD FOR OUR FREEDOM. AND WE ASK YOUR BLESSING ON THEM AS WELL. THANK YOU, LORD. AND YOUR NAME WE PRAY. AMEN. AMEN. WITH ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE. FOR ALL HONOR, HONOR THE TEXAS FLAG. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE TEXAS ONE STATE UNDER GOD, ONE AND INDIVISIBLE. THANK Y'ALL FOR COMING TONIGHT. APPRECIATE IT. UH, WE WILL START [3. ANNOUNCEMENTS AND PRESENTATIONS] WITH ITEM NUMBER THREE, ANNOUNCEMENTS AND PRESENTATIONS. BOARD COMMENTS. THAT'S NEW. DO WE HAVE COMMENTS OF OUR OWN? I DON'T HEAR YOU AGAIN. YEAH. NO. I MEAN, IT'S ON, ON OUR END. IS THE MICROPHONE ON IT'S AND THAT'S WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS. IT OUT. YEAH. A RED LIGHT. WELL, WORST CASE SCENARIO, YOU WANNA GRAB ONE OF THOSE MICROPHONES? YOU JUST STAND OVER THERE BY THE SIDE. SIX POINT A HALF DOZEN. YOU WANNA USE THIS ONE OR USE THAT ONE? OH. OH, NADA. I'LL SIT OVER HERE. SO THE AGENDA, YOU'LL GET THERE EVENTUALLY. HOW ABOUT NOW? COME ON. HOW ABOUT NOW? YAY. THERE'S MUCH INTRODUCING. THE AGENDA HAS BEEN AMENDED TO MIRROR THE CITY COUNCIL AGENDAS. UH, SO IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS, UH, THIS IS HOW THEY'RE LAID OUT NOW, AND IT GIVES THE OPPORTUNITY FOR BOARD MEMBERS TO, UH, GIVE ANY ANNOUNCEMENTS, ANYTHING THAT THEY HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO COMMUNITY OR LIKEWISE AT THE BEGINNING. IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING, THAT'S FINE. UH, WE'LL DO IT. UH, LIKE COUNSEL ALSO, DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE? NO. MRS. FORTNER, I WILL PREPARE NEXT TIME. OKAY. NOT THAT I KNOW . ABSOLUTELY FAIR, JOHN. YEAH. UH, WELCOME EVERYBODY. AND, UH, I THANK THOSE CITIZENS WHO TOOK THE TIME OUT OF THEIR BUSY LIVES TO ATTEND. IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE ON YOUR MINDS TONIGHT THAT YOU'D LIKE TO EXPRESS TO, WE'D CERTAINLY LIKE TO HEAR IT. THAT'S ALL I HAVE, BILL. YEAH, WE, JOHN AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE CHANGING THE STARTING TIME OF THE MEETING. 2, 6 30, 7 O'CLOCK. I THINK THE COUNCIL IS SEVEN O'CLOCK IS IS IN, UH, COUNCIL IS 7:00 PM YES, SIR. YEAH. SIX IS KIND OF A LITTLE BIT EARLY AND JUST KIND OF FOOLS WITH DINNER A LOT. WE HAD TALKED ABOUT IT A COUPLE OF TIMES. WE HAD SETTLED ON SIX, BUT FOR ME, I'M KIND OF, I I DEFERRED TO THE LADIES AT THIS POINT. ACTUALLY, THE, THEY KIND OF TOLD US AT SIX BECAUSE THAT'S HOW COUNCIL WAS. AND NOW IF COUNCIL'S AT SEVEN, THEN THAT MAKES SENSE. SO, I'M, I'M, SO DO WE WANNA CUT IT DOWN THE MIDDLE? IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH SIX 30? JUST, YOU MAY OR MAY NOT BE AWARE. I'M SURE TRAVIS IS THAT THE MAYOR HAD ANNOUNCED THAT ONE OF THE COUNCIL MEETINGS, PA, IN THIS RECENT PAST, THAT HE WANTED TO STANDARDIZE ALL THESE BOARDS, THE TIME THAT THEY MET AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE ALL, UH, TELEVISED OR IT MAKES SENSE. WEBEX, WHATEVER YOU, WHATEVER THEY USE. I DON'T KNOW WHICH SOFTWARE THEY'RE USING. YEAH. BUT, SO THAT EVERYTHING IS, IF CITIZENS WANT TO OBSERVE AT HOME ON THE INTERNET, THEY CAN, BUT HE DID SAY THEY WANTED TO STANDARDIZE IT. I'M ASSUMING, AGAIN, I'M ASSUMING THIS, THAT SINCE THEY START AT SEVEN, PROBABLY GONNA WANT EVERYBODY ELSE TO START AT SEVEN. YOU MAY WANNA THAT'S COOL WITH ME. YOU MAY WANT TO REACH OUT TO HIM ON THAT. COUNSEL DECIDES ON THAT. I'M NOT GONNA SAY FOR A SECOND. IT'S A HILL I'M WILLING TO DIE ON, BUT HONESTLY, SEVEN SEEMED A LITTLE LATE FOR ME AT THAT POINT. YEAH. I'M GETTING OLDER. I KNOW , BUT, UH, IN [00:05:01] THE MIDDLE OF MY, WE'LL, WE'LL FIGHT THAT BATTLE. BUT FOR TODAY, I'M OKAY WITH IT. IF YOU GUYS WOULD PREFER SIX 30. IT'S A, IT'S A WASH OUT FOR ME. WOULD SIX 30 BE OKAY FOR THE NEXT MEETING ON THE AGENDA FOR NEXT MEETING? WE CAN DECIDE WE CAN DO SIX 30. OR DO WE EVEN NEED TO HAVE AN AGREEMENT OTHER THAN WE JUST ALL SAY SIX 30 IS A GOOD NUMBER? 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S LIKE A PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT THING OTHER THAN THE AGENDA ITSELF. RIGHT. WE PROVIDE NOTICE REGARDLESS. YEAH. SO I MEAN, NEXT WILL JUST SIMPLY BE SIX 30 AND IT'LL BE NOTIFIED A COUPLE WEEKS IN ADVANCE. 72 HOURS, WHATEVER IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE. MM-HMM . UH, BRUCE, YOU AREN'T GETTING OLD . YOU AREN'T OLD . WHAT'D YOU SAY? CAN'T HEAR OR SEE ANYMORE EITHER. SO THERE YOU GO. UM, PHIL, ANY OTHER COMMENTS, SIR? NO, THANK YOU. OKAY. UH, KIND OF REITERATE, UH, WHAT JOHN SAID. WELCOME EVERYBODY. I'LL HAVE A WHOLE SPEECH FOR NEXT TIME I COME. AND WITH THAT I DEFER TO TRAVIS. YOU GOT A THREE B STAFF UPDATE EITHER OR? YES. SO, UM, UPDATE THE, UH, CITY COUNCIL HAS APPROVED THE ZONING MAP AMENDMENT FROM MIXED USE ZONING TO AUTOCENTRIC COMMERCIAL ZONING FOR 34 29 GULF FREEWAY AND THE OTHER PARCELS THAT ALSO BELONG TO IT. THAT'S ALL FOR THE UPDATE. SEE? FANTASTIC. IS THAT THE ONE WE APPROVED LAST TIME? YES, SIR. YEAH. ALL THE, UH, PEOPLE THAT DON'T LIVE IN LOFTS OVER THERE ARE NOT UPSET. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. PUBLIC COMMENTS. MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ARE INVITED TO GIVE COMMENTS THIS TIME LASTING. I I'M NOT GONNA BOTHER READING THIS. DID ANYBODY SIGN UP FOR COMMENTS? NO, THEY DID. OKAY. DID ANYBODY WANT TO HAVE COMMENTS? OKAY. UH, WE'LL ROLL ON TO NUM [5. CONSENT AGENDA] ITEM FIVE. CONSENT TO AGENDA. THE FOLLOWING ITEMS ARE CONSIDERED ROUTINE AND WILL BE ENACTED BY ONE MOTION. THERE WILL NOT BE A SEPARATE DISCUSSION OF THESE ITEMS UNLESS A COMMISSION MEMBER REQUESTS. AND AT WHICH EVENT THE ITEM WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA AND DISCUSSED AFTER THE CONSENT AGENDA. IS THERE ANYTHING ANYBODY HAS, UH, ISSUE WITH? IF NOT, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION. A MOTION. SECOND. WE HAVE MOTION. AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. MOTION CARRIED. MOVING TO ITEM SIX, OLD BUSINESS. IS THERE ANY OLD BUSINESS? NOTHING. SORRY. NO OLD BUSINESS. OKAY. GOOD TO GO. JUMPING TO [7. NEW BUSINESS] ITEM SEVEN, NEW BUSINESS ITEM SEVEN A CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING CONCERNING A REQUEST TO AMEND THE OFFICIAL ZONING MAP FROM AUTOCENTRIC COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICT TO URBAN TRANSITION ZONING DISTRICT FOR A PARCEL LAND OF APPROXIMATELY 0.459 ACRES. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY CONSISTS OF ONE PARCEL, UH, 1 6 3 4 0 4, AND REGISTERED ADDRESS AT 3 5 3 2 ELM DRIVE, AND LEGALLY DESCRIBED AS ABSTRACT 19 PER AUSTIN, UH, SURROUNDING PART OF LOT 1 41 3 DASH ZERO DICKINSON EDITION D 25% UDI. NOW WE WILL OPEN THE HEARING AT SIX 10. STAFF PRESENTATION PLEASE. YES. GOOD EVENING. UH, SO THIS IS A PARCEL LOCATED ON ELM DRIVE. IT IS VACANT, AN UNDEVELOPED, UH, LIKE WE SAID, IT IS CURRENTLY ZONED THE AUTOCENTRIC COMMERCIAL. UH, THE APPLICANT WHO HAS PURCHASED THIS PROPERTY, UH, WISHES TO DEVELOP IT AS A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. I BELIEVE THEY INITIALLY PROPOSED A MULTIPLEX AND NOW HAVE, UH, MAYBE DECIDED ON A DUPLEX INSTEAD. UH, IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THIS AREA, IT IS MOSTLY RESIDENTIAL, UH, EXCEPT FOR THE FRONT LOTS THAT FACE FIVE 17. UH, THOSE ARE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS WITH THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD BEING EXISTING RESIDENTIAL, UH, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. SO I WOULD, UM, I WOULD SAY THAT A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT WOULD FIT THE CHARACTER OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, IT SHOULD NOT NEGATIVELY AFFECT ANY OF THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES. UH, OBVIOUSLY THE, THE USES THAT THEY INTEND, UH, ARE PERMITTED IN THE URBAN TRANSITION ZONING DISTRICT. THAT'S PRETTY MUCH ABOUT IT. UH, STAFF WOULD RECOMMEND APPROVAL ON THIS. IF YOU NOTICE THE PICTURES, THE SITE HAS ALREADY BEEN CLEARED. UH, THE APPLICANT HAS BEEN, UH, WORKING WITH THE CITY ON THAT AS IT WAS DONE WITHOUT PERMITS, BUT THEY'VE, TO THIS POINT BEEN, UH, VERY AGREEABLE AND WORKING WELL WITH THE CITY. OKAY. THANK YOU. APPLICANT'S PRESENTATION HERE. NO CURRENT PRESENTATION. OKAY. SO I'M ASSUMING NO PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THE NON PRESENTATION, WHICH MEANS NO REBUTTAL. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, WE WILL ADJOURN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT SIX 11 AND WE WILL GO TO ITEM SEVEN [00:10:01] B, CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION CONCERNING MAKING A RECOMMENDATION ON A REQUEST TO AMEND THE OFFICIAL ZONING MAP FROM AUTOCENTRIC COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICT TO URBAN TRANSITION ZONING DISTRICT FOR PARCEL LAND APPROXIMATELY 0.4959. THIS SUBJECT PROPERTY CONSISTS OF ONE PARCEL, 1 6 3 4 0 4, AND REGISTERED ADDRESS IS 35 32 ELM DRIVE AND IS LEGALLY DESCRIBED AS THE ABSTRACT 19 PERIOD AUSTIN, UH, SURROUNDING PART OF LOT 1 41 AND DICKINSON EDITION D 25% UDI. OKAY, I OPEN THE FLOOR TO CONVERSATION, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. YOU WANT A MOTION FIRST, OR, UH, LET'S, LET'S LEAVE IT OPEN FOR JUST A SECOND IF THAT'S, YOU WANT COMMENTS? YEAH, I THINK SO. I HAVE A QUESTION, IF YOU DON'T MIND, UH, FOR IF I MAY. SURE. ARE, ARE YOU THE APPLICANT'S? YES. OKAY. UM, DO YOU MIND ANSWERING QUESTIONS? UM, I CAN TURN. OKAY. YEAH, I'M TOTALLY OKAY WITH THAT TOO. I, I'M ASSUMING JOHN, YOU'RE WANTING ANSWERS THAT REGARD? YES. OKAY. IS THIS WHAT THEY WANT ON THAT? WHAT DID THEY WANT ON THAT? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA FIND OUT. SO MY QUESTION WAS, ORIGINALLY WHEN I READ THE AGENDA, I THOUGHT IT SAID A DUPLEX, BUT I THOUGHT I HEARD YOU SAY, 'CAUSE NOW THAT IT'S A MULTIPLEX, IT REVERSED. I'M SORRY. NOW IT'S A, NOW IT'S A DUPLEX. RIGHT? RIGHT. WHEN WE INITIALLY TALKED TO THE APPLICANT, THEY, UH, INDICATED THAT THEY WANTED TO DEVELOP A MULTIPLEX. UH, BUT THROUGH FURTHER DISCUSSION WITH, WITH THE PLANNING AND THE REQUIREMENTS THAT WOULD NEED TO BE MET FOR A MULTIPLEX, I BELIEVE THEY DECIDED TO DO A DUPLEX INSTEAD. MM-HMM . SO, OH, OKAY. SO THIS APPLICATION IS FOR A DUPLEX AND NOT A MULTI, TECHNICALLY THIS APPLICATION IS JUST FOR THE ZONING. THE, THE DUPLEX WOULD COME LATER. SO IF, OKAY. BE AWARE THAT IF YOU ZONE IT TO THIS URBAN TRANSITION, EITHER ONE OF THOSE DEVELOPMENTS IS PERMITTED. OKAY? MM-HMM . ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. AND I'M ASSUMING THIS IS FOR RENTAL PROPERTY? YEAH. YES. OKAY. OKAY. UM, LADIES, QUESTIONS. IT SAYS SHE STARTED WORKING ON THE PROPERTY PRIOR TO PULLING THE PERMIT. YES. SHE WASN'T AWARE THAT THERE WERE PERMIT, UM, REQUIREMENTS FOR CLEANING OFF THE TREES ON THE PROPERTY. OKAY. YEAH. BUT SHE'S COMPLIED. SHE'S A, UM, GIVEN US A, UH, ARBORIST REPORT, UM, APPLIED FOR THE PERMIT. OKAY. YEP. SHE, SHE'S NOT THE FIRST OR THE LAST TO WORK WITHOUT A PERMIT. I DIDN'T KNOW IF SHE STARTED POURING. OH, ARE YOU LOOKING OVER HERE, TRAVIS? DON'T LOOK OVER HERE. LOOK OVER. NOTHING TO SEE HERE, SIR. UH, NO, THE, IT SPEAKS A LOT THE, HOW THEIR ACTIONS ARE AFTER THE FACT OF GETTING STOPPED, YOU KNOW, AND SO THEY'VE, THEY'VE DONE DONE A GREAT JOB OF WORKING WITH THE CITY AFTER THE FACT. MM-HMM . OKAY. UM, I DON'T, GO AHEAD. GO AHEAD, MA'AM. UH, TRAVIS, ONE OF THE THINGS ARE, UH, AVAILABLE FOR A URBAN TRANSITION OR KIND OF EXPLAIN URBAN TRANSITION A LITTLE BETTER, PLEASE. CRYSTAL, YOU DO YOU HAVE THE UNIF, THE CONSOLIDATE USE TABLE OPEN. OKAY. OH, REALLY? DO YOU WANNA SEE THIS ONE? WELL, THAT WAY YOU CAN SEE IT. OKAY. SO URBAN TRANSITION PERMITS, YOU KNOW, MORE DENSE POPULATION THAN JUST SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. SO I BELIEVE, UH, ATTACHED HOMES MULTIPLEX, UH, DUPLEX, MODULARS, I'M SORRY, MODS, UH, MODULAR HOME IS, IS NOT PERMITTED 'CAUSE IT'S A SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOME. UH, YEAH. SO NO SINGLE FAMILY HOMES IN THIS FIELD? CORRECT. THE URBAN TRANSITION ZONING DISTRICT DOES NOT PERMIT A SINGLE FAMILY HOME. OKAY. I, I'M GONNA SAY SOMETHING AGAIN. AS IS LIKE, SEEMS EVERY MEETING, I'M NOT TRYING TO DEVOLVE US INTO SOMETHING, UH, BUT I DO NOT COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND. I LOOKED TO THE MAP, THEY'RE SHOWING WHERE THEY WERE. I DO NOT COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND HOW PROPERTY THAT IS A FULL BLOCK OFF OF A MAIN ROAD THAT IS LITERALLY IN A SUBDIVISION CAN BE CONSIDERED AUTOCENTRIC COMMERCIAL. AND I KNOW THIS IS AFTER THE FACT. I'M JUST MAKING MY POINT. I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AUTOCENTRIC TO BEGIN WITH. NOW, THE URBAN TRANSITION, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IS THE MULTIFAMILY, WHICH KIND OF, AS, AS I'M UNDERSTANDING NOW, THERE'S A LOT OF OUR ZONING WITH THE NEW NAMES AND EVERYTHING THAT IS PUSH A MAJOR PUSH TO INCREASE THE DENSITY OF POPULATION IN OUR CITY. MM-HMM . UM, I'M GONNA SAY [00:15:01] IT, I PROBABLY SHOULD SAVE IT FOR MY, MY MOMENT OF HAVING THE MICROPHONE BEFORE, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE GOAL OF MOST OF THE PEOPLE I THINK ON COUNCIL OR THE PLANNING ZONING. SO NOW IN THIS SCENARIO RIGHT HERE, I'M PERSONALLY NOT OPPOSED TO A DUPLEX, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE GOTTA HAVE A HOME. I UNDERSTAND THAT. UH, I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO TALK ABOUT IN THE FUTURE, UH, DISCUSSION ABOUT URBAN TRANSITION AND WHERE THE ITEMS ARE LOCATED THAT FALLS IN THAT CATEGORY. MM-HMM . AND SO I WILL GET OFF MY SOAPBOX ON THAT RIGHT NOW. I APOLOGIZE. SORRY ABOUT THAT. OKAY. SO IF WE ZONE CARBON TRANSITION, ANY OF THAT CAN OCCUR. I MEAN, IT DOESN'T, IT JUST, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A DUPLEX RIGHT NOW, BUT IT, IT COULD BE A MULTIPLEX, WHATEVER. I DON'T KNOW. IT COULD BE ANYTHING THAT'S ALLOWED IN THAT ZONING DISTRICT. YES, MA'AM. IF I MAY, I THINK DEBRA, AND CORRECT ME RIGHT NOW THAT PROPERTY IS AUTOCENTRIC, WHICH MEANS BASICALLY THEY COULD PUT A STORE ON THAT PROPERTY RIGHT NOW. CORRECT. THEY COULD PUT A BUSINESS AND THIS PROPERTY, AND THIS WAS KIND OF MY ISSUE WITH THE URBAN TRANSITION AND THE AUTOCENTRIC. THIS IS ONE BLOCK OFF OF FIVE 17 BEHIND A STRIP MALL THAT IS ALL RESIDENTIAL BACK THERE. I KNOW. AND BY VIRTUE OF THE WAY THAT IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED, LIKE I SAID, SOMEBODY COULD PUT A GAS STATION BACK THERE IF THEY WANTED TO OR PUT A, A SMOKE SHOP OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND THEY WOULD BE COMPLETELY WITHIN THEIR RIGHTS. I KNOW WE HAVE THE SUP ON SOME EVENT, BUT YEAH, BUT STILL, BUT SINCE THEY'RE ASKING FOR SUP NO, THEY'RE NOT. THEY'RE ASKING. THEY'RE NOT. NO, THEY'RE JUST ASKING FOR A REONE. JUST, AND AGAIN, MY APOLOGIES TO HER. THIS IS NOT THE POINT OF THE CONVERSATION. I KNOW. SO WE DO HAVE AN ITEM FOR DISCUSSION AFTER, AFTER THESE ITEMS, SO, WONDERFUL. THANK YOU. ANY TIME. YEAH. OKAY. , I'M OPEN FOR, UM, A MOTION IF ANYBODY IS OFFERING ONE. I'LL MAKE A MOTION. DO WE APPROVE THE APPLICATION? I HAVE A MOTION. DO I HAVE A SECOND? I SECOND IT. OKAY. I HAVE MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT, UH, SEVEN C, CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING REQUEST TO AMEND THE OFFICIAL ZONING MAP FROM AUTOCENTRIC COMMERCIAL AC ZONING DISTRICT AND NEIGHBORHOOD CON CONSERVATION ZONING DISTRICT FOR PARCEL LAND, APPROXIMATELY 1.336 ACRES. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY CONSISTS OF ONE PARCEL 3 7 5 9 1 3, AND LOCATED AT THE CORNER OF GUM DRIVE. AND E FIVE 17 EAST LEGALLY DESCRIBES AS ABSTRACT 36, PAGE THREE PARTS OF LOTS, ONE DASH THREE AND ALL OF FOUR AND FIVE ONE DASH ONE BLOCK SIX TROPICAL GARDENS, UH, WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT SIX 19. STAFF PRESENTATION, SIR. ALRIGHT, UH, SO THIS ONE IS KIND OF SIMILAR SCENARIO. IT'S A COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICT THAT THEY'RE REQUESTING TO FLIP TO RESIDENTIAL. UH, I WOULD SAY IT'S A BIT OF A DIFFERENT SCENARIO. THIS IS A LOT THAT IMMEDIATELY FRONTS FIVE 17, AND IT'S PRETTY MUCH THE LAST PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE IF YOU'RE HEADING OUT OF THE CITY OF DICKINSON. UH, GOING TOWARDS 1 46. UH, SO THIS ONE, I I WOULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT, YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL ZONING DOES FIT A PROPERTY THAT FRONTS A TDOT ROADWAY. THAT'S, YOU KNOW, PRETTY BASIC. UH, I WOULD SAY THE CONSTRAINTS FOR THIS ONE, UH, ARE SIZE AND FLOODPLAIN, UH, ISSUES. THIS AREA IS HISTORICALLY LOW, UH, AND IT'S GONNA BE REQUIRED, YOU KNOW, TO MEET THE MINIMUM BASE FLOOD ELEVATION PER FEMA. UH, SO, YOU KNOW, TALKING WITH STAFF AND WITH, UH, OUR CONSULTANT ENGINEER, I THINK THAT A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT ON THIS LOT WOULD PROBABLY BE CHALLENGING JUST DUE TO SIZE MOSTLY. UH, SO, UH, A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE A BIT OF AN EASIER LIFT FOR THIS LOCATION. UM, UH, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN DOES, UH, INDICATE THIS AREA FOR A PARKS AND OPEN SPACE. SO, UH, PARKS AND OPEN SPACE IS, IS REALLY, IS ALLOWED IN EVERY ZONING DISTRICT. UH, SO IT'S, IT'S HARD TO ARGUE, HEY, THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY SHOULD ONLY HAVE BEEN DEDICATED TO PARKS AND OPEN SPACE. I THINK, UH, A RESIDENTIAL ELEMENT WOULD, UH, WOULD MEET THAT NECESSARILY. SO I, I HAVE DISCUSSED WITH THE APPLICANT A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, POSSIBLY PROVIDING, UH, SOME TYPE OF SMALL EASEMENT OR WATER ACCESS, UH, ON THE BACKSIDE OF THESE PROPERTIES. THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN REALLY CONDITION ON THIS ZONING CHANGE, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK HE WILL CONSIDER WHILE WE'RE DOING THE PLATTING PROCESS. UM, ADDITIONALLY, I THINK, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THIS NEIGHBORHOOD IS BUILT OUT AS A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, ALREADY, UH, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE ACROSS FIVE 17, THERE IS A PLANNED MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT, UH, AS, AS MANY, MANY ACRES, I THINK 30 ACRES PLUS. AND THEY HAVE, UM, ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE BAYOU, A RESIDENTIAL ELEMENT THAT COMES ALL THE WAY OUT TO FIVE 17. SO I THINK IT WOULD MAKE A NICE, UH, YOU KNOW, CONTINUOUS RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT ALL THE WAY DOWN ALONG THE BAYOU. UH, THEY PROBABLY PROPOSED SOME WALKING [00:20:01] TRAILS AND WE WOULD LIKE TO, UH, YOU KNOW, CONTINUE THAT HERE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF FIVE 17. OKAY. APPLICANT'S PRESENTATION. YEP. SO STAFF, STAFF WOULD RECOMMEND APPROVAL ON THIS ONE. THANK YOU, SIR. OKAY. I'M CHRIS HARRISON, UH, A LOCAL BUILDER. BUILDER IN THE AREA. UM, UH, UPON THE SCREEN IS, IS WHAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE WHERE WE CHOPPED OUT FOUR LOTS AND WE LEFT THE BIGGEST ONE OVER TOWARDS FIVE 17. SO IT LEFT MORE OF A BUFFER INTO THAT AREA. UM, REALLY DID NOT HAVE A PLAN ON, ON PUTTING AN EASEMENT ON THE BACKSIDE IS IT WOULD TAKE IT FROM BEING WATERFRONT PROPERTY AND BEING ABLE TO, TO CLASSIFY IT AS WATERFRONT PROPERTY TO A BANK OR A MORTGAGE COMPANY. UM, AND I PRESENTED AN IDEA OF LIKE THE TYPE OF HOUSE THAT WE PLAN ON DOING, WHICH WOULD BE 2000 TO 3000 SQUARE FEET, WHICH KIND OF THE SAME TYPE OF RENDERING, WHAT YOU WOULD SEE ON THE FRONT THERE, EACH OF THE HOUSES WOULD BE DIFFERENT. AND, UM, OTHER THAN THAT, YOU KNOW, WE TOSSED AROUND THE IDEA IF IT STAYED COMMERCIAL TO DEAL WITH LIKE AN OPEN AREA BAR, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT I KNOW DICKSON DOES NOT NEED ANY MORE BARS. FORGIVE ME. CAN YOU DO ME A FAVOR AND JUST SAY YOUR NAME AND, UH, ADDRESS WHERE YOU LIVE? YEAH, YEAH. CHRISTOPHER HARRISON. AND, UH, ADDRESS IS 1 1 1 0 TALLOW DRIVE. DICKINSON. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YES, SIR. THAT'S JUST STANDARD. YOU GOTTA HAVE IT IN THERE. OKAY. YEAH, NO PROBLEM. DID ELSE BORN AND RAISED IN THE AREA. GOOD DEAL. YEP. OKAY. UH, ANY ADDITIONAL SIR? UH, THAT, THAT'S IT. GOOD START. UH, ALL RIGHT. YOU HAVE A SEAT AND THEN WE WILL, UH, DOES ANYBODY HAVE PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THIS? HAS ANYBODY SIGNED UP FOR IT OR WISH TO SPEAK FOR AGAINST? BY ALL MEANS, MA'AM, PLEASE COME FORWARD ABOUT THIS ISSUE. YES, YES. NO, NOT THIS ISSUE. OKAY. YEAH, THE, JUST, THIS IS JUST TALKING ABOUT, NO, NOT THIS, THAT PROPERTY RIGHT THERE, MA'AM. I SEEN IT LATE, PREVIOUS NUMBER ONE ON AGENDA. OH, IT'S ALREADY THERE. THAT'S ALREADY PASSED. CAN I HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT IT LATER OR NO? UH, IT'S ALREADY BEEN VOTED ON, MA'AM, I'M SORRY. I JUST HAD A QUESTION. IT WASN'T, UH, FORGIVE ME. WE, WE GOTTA FINISH THE PUBLIC HEARING SO I DON'T GET IN TROUBLE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY. SO NO PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THIS PROPERTY, THEREFORE NO APPLICANT'S REBUTTAL. UH, WE'LL ADJOURN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 6 24. AND, AND MA'AM, I'M GONNA GET TO YOU, I PROMISE I WON'T FORGET ABOUT YOU, BUT WE'RE GONNA WRAP THIS PART UP. UH, SEVEN D CONSIDERATION OF POP POSSIBLE ACTION CONCERNING MAKING A RECOMMENDATION ON A REQUEST TO AMEND THE OFFICIAL ZONING MAP FROM AUTOCENTRIC COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICT TO NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION NC ZONING DISTRICT FOR PARCEL OF LAND OF APPROXIMATELY 1.336 ACRES. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY CONSISTS OF ONE PARCEL 3 7 5 9 1 3, AND LOCATED AT THE CORNER OF GUM DRIVE. AND FIVE 17 EAST LEGALLY DESCRIBED THE ABSTRACT 36, PAGE THREE PART OF LOTS, ONE AND THREE, AND ALL OF FOUR AND FIVE, ONE DASH ONE BLOCK, SIX TROPICAL GARDENS. UH, OPEN THE FLOOR TO CONVERSATION. YEAH, I THINK ESPECIALLY SINCE ALL OF THIS IS BEING HEARD, MAYBE SOMEBODY'S ACTUALLY LISTENING TO IT, THAT WE SHOULD, UH, ASK WHAT THE DESIGNATORS MEAN, UH, AND NOT ASSUME THAT PEOPLE KNOW THAT. SO, NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION, WHICH IS WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO MOVE IT TO. WHAT, WHAT WOULD THAT ENTAIL? THE PERMITTED USES IN NEIGHBORHOOD CON CONSERVATION? DO YOU HAVE THE PERMITTED USES IN NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION WOULD BE YOUR CONVENTIONAL DETACHED HOMES. SO THAT'S MORE LIKE THE RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS. UM, YOU ARE ALSO ALLOWED DUPLEXES AS WELL, UH, PATIO HOMES, UH, UPPER STORY, RESIDENTIAL, UPPER STORY. YEAH. UM, SO UPPER STORY IS, UH, DWELLING UNITS LOCATED ON THE UPPER FLOOR OF A BUILDING WHERE THE FIRST FLOOR OF THE BUILDING IS USED FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL PURPOSES. SO MAYBE LIKE YOU HAVE A STORAGE, WHICH, OR SOMETHING ELSE, WHICH IS PRETTY MUCH REQUIRED IF THE FLOODPLAINS THERE, THEY'RE SAYING THEIR BUSINESS AND THEN A LOCKED ON TOP OF THE BUSINESS. SO YOU'RE SAYING NO, NOT, NOT THIS ONE. THIS ONE'S NOT, UH, NO BUSINESS IN, NO BUSINESS IN, WELL, THAT'S WHERE, OKAY, BACK UP , THAT YOUR LOOK IS MINE. SO SOMETHING ON TOP OF SOMETHING. YEP. SO DWELLING UNITS LOCATED ON THE UPPER FLOORS OF THE BUILDING WHERE THE FIRST FLOOR OF THE BUILDING IS USED FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL PURPOSES. SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? SO WHAT IS A NON-RESIDENTIAL? IF IT'S NOT A BUSINESS? SO LIKE, UM, SOMEWHERE WHERE YOU CAN STORE YOUR ITEMS. PURE BEAMS HOUSE. OH, OKAY. YEAH. LIKE A PYRAMID BEAM HOUSE. THEY'RE, THEY'RE ELEVATED HOUSES BECAUSE OKAY. SO IT'S JUST, YEAH. OKAY. CARPORT ISH. OKAY. AND I DON'T WANNA PUT WORDS IN ANYBODY'S MOUTH. MY UNDERSTANDING, ESPECIALLY LOOKING AT THESE, UNDERSTANDING PRETTY MUCH ANY HOUSE THAT'S BUILT ALONGSIDE OUR WATER NOWADAYS HAS TO BE ONE OF THESE TYPES ANYWAY. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, IT'S EVERYTHING WE HAVE OVER THE WATER STREET, EVERYTHING THAT'S OVER THERE BY MAS AND ALL THAT STUFF. MM-HMM . UH, [00:25:01] I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S COMPLETELY WHAT IT'S MEANT FOR, BUT THAT'S WHAT IT'S PLANNED. OKAY. SO THAT, THAT'S, THOSE ARE THE, ALL THE, ALL THE USES THAT ARE AVAILABLE FOR THAT. OKAY. YEP. AS FAR AS DENSITY'S CONCERNED, A A DUPLEX IS THE MOST DENSE DEVELOPMENT IN NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION. OKAY. COOL. THAT HELPS. YES, MA'AM DOES HELP. OKAY. JOHN, PHIL? I THINK THAT'S THE BEST USE OF THE PROPERTY. I MEAN, WE DON'T NEED A PARK THERE. I MEAN, WE DON'T WANNA HAVE TO SUPPORT A PARK. THIS WILL ADD QUITE A BIT TO OUR TAX BASE. MM-HMM . I THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA. GOOD DEAL. UH, AGAIN, FORGIVE ME FOR SOAPBOX. UH, WE HAVE A PLANNED USE FOR THIS AS BASICALLY OPEN SPACE IN A PARK AND IT'S PRIVATELY OWNED, WAS PRIVATELY OWNED, STILL PRIVATELY OWNED. OKAY. AND, UH, FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, WHILE I DO LOVE WALKING ALONGSIDE THE WATER TOO, BUT IF SOMEBODY OWNS THEIR PROPERTY, THEY OWN THEIR PROPERTY. THAT'S MY TAKE ON IT. UH, WITH THAT BEING SAID, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, YEAH. I MOVE TO APPROVE. SECOND. I'LL SECOND A. OKAY. UH, WE HAVE MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIED. CONGRATULATIONS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UH, I'M GONNA, IT SHOULD BE, I'M GONNA FORWARD THIS YOUNG LADY AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY YOUR PIECE. IT IS AFTER THE FACT, BUT I'LL GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY IF YOU'D LIKE. USE YES MA'AM. PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T MIND. IT IS AFTER THE FACT. THIS IS KIND OF UNORTHODOX, BUT, UH, I APPRECIATE YOU COMING. ALL THE SAME. THANK YOU. YES, YVONNE DE LEON. I'VE BEEN A RESIDENCE OF, UH, DICKINSON FOR 35 YEARS. ADDRESS, MA'AM? 35. 25 ELM DRIVE. I'M A RETIRED SCHOOL COUNSELOR HERE FROM DICKINSON. ISD. YES, MA'AM. WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL LITTLE TOWN. I'M ORIGINALLY FROM THE RIO GRANDE VALLEY, AND MY APOLOGIES FOR BEING LATE. I HAVE MY PARENTS VISITING FROM THE RIO GRANDE VALLEY, SO THANKS DAD. FOR, WELCOME TO DICKINSON . MATT CALLEN, TEXAS. UM, AND I'M HERE BECAUSE I DO LIVE ON ELM AND ELM. I RECEIVED A LETTER MM-HMM . TO, UH, ABOUT TODAY'S MEETING. I'M SO SORRY I MISSED IT. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I, THE PROPERTY THAT WAS IN QUESTION, I BELIEVE, ARE THESE THE OWNERS? YES, MA'AM. HI, . . MY DAD CAN TRANSLATE TO. I CAN TOO, BUT HE CAN'T. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, WHAT IT WAS. I GUESS IT WAS RESIDENTIAL. I WANTED JUST TO MAKE SURE. DOUBLE CHECK. SHE WAS SO NICE TO LET ME KNOW TODAY. AND YOU WERE TOO, THAT MY HOME WOULD NOT BE AFFECTED. SHOULD I SELL IT AS COMMERCIAL? I JUST DIDN'T WANT MY PROPERTY VALUE TO GO DOWN. . I DON'T KNOW IF, REMEMBER YOURS IS, UH, 35, 25 5 ELM DRIVE, YOURS, URBAN TRANSITION, WHICH IS WHAT THEY REQUESTED. YOURS IS TIME, BASICALLY RESIDENTIAL. MM-HMM . SO I'LL STILL BE RESIDENTIAL. YES, MA'AM. YEAH. THERE'S A COMMERCIAL ACROSS THE STREET OR RIGHT NEXT DOOR. WOULD IT BRING, BRING MY PROP? THAT WAS MY BIGGEST QUESTION. SO IT BY ALL MEANS, FEEL FREE. I WOULDN'T REALLY KNOW. THAT'S MORE LIKE A REALTOR PURCHASING TYPE DEAL TAXES. UM, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD AFFECT YOUR PROPERTY. UM, I GUESS IT'S JUST, IF, IF I MAY, THE NEXT ITEM WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT IS CERTAIN UNDERSTANDING OF THE UDC, THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. AND IT, IT'S THERE. THEY'VE MODIFIED OUR ZONING DISTRICTS ON FIVE 17. THAT'S WHAT WE USED TO CALL COMMERCIAL. YOU COULD HAVE BUSINESSES THERE BEHIND IT WAS RESIDENTIAL, YOU COULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING BUT HOMES BACK THERE. WE COULD EXPAND IT A LITTLE BIT, BUT THAT WAS THE GIST OF IT. THEY CAME OUT WITH THE UDC. NOW WE'VE GOT THE, WHAT DO WE CALL IT ON THE, THE AUTOCENTRIC, WHICH IS WHAT WE USED TO CALL COMMERCIAL. BASICALLY IT'S BUSINESSES THAT CARS DRIVE UP TO. AND THEN THERE THEY CAME UP WITH SOMETHING CALLED URBAN TRANSITION, WHICH IS BASICALLY THE PROPERTY DIRECTLY BEHIND THESE PROPERTIES THAT MM. THAT PROPERTY RIGHT NOW IS CURRENTLY ZONED AS URBAN TRANS, OR EXCUSE ME, UH, PROPERTY. YES. THE PROPERTY THAT THEY OWN. YES. OKAY. IS CURRENTLY AUTO CENTRIC. AND WE JUST CHANGED THE ZONING OR, UH, PRESENTED THAT WE AGREED TO THE CHANGE OF THE ZONING, WHERE TECHNICALLY THE WAY IT WAS ZONED RIGHT NOW, THEY COULD OPEN A BUSINESS. I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF THAT MYSELF. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY HERE IS, FORTUNATELY THESE LADIES ARE ASKING TO BUILD, UM, A HOUSE, A DUPLEX ON IT, WHICH WE DIDN'T, UH, WE'RE NOT OPPOSED TO THAT. AND SO WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT HERE IN A MINUTE ABOUT WHAT THE UDC CODE OH, OKAY. CAN AND CANNOT DO. SO WE DON'T WANT YOUR PROPERTY VALUES TO GO DOWN ANY MORE THAN I WANT MY OWN. AND WE WILL, I BELIEVE I CAN SPEAK FOR ALL OF US WHEN WE SAY WE WILL WORK HARD TO MAKE SURE IT STAYS THAT WAY. GOOD. WE DON'T MIND THE PROPERTY VALUE GOING DOWN, BUT I DON'T MIND THE TAXES GOING DOWN. . I'M ALWAYS OKAY WITH THAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MUCH. I APPRECIATE IT. OKAY, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, STEPPING TO ITEM SEVEN E, DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. YES, SIR. HOT TOPIC. UH, SO I KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WE COULD GO ABOUT THIS TWO WAYS. IF, IF [00:30:01] Y'ALL WANNA START, I'M OPEN TO THAT, OR IF Y'ALL WANT TO HEAR WHAT, UH, STAFF HAS TO START, I CAN DO THAT AS WELL. I DEFER STAFF. I'M GONNA HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. OKAY. UH, SO REALLY STAFF HAS IDENTIFIED A FEW ITEMS, UH, YOU KNOW, ON THE STAFF SIDE THAT, THAT IT'S MOSTLY PROCEDURALLY STUFF THAT DON'T WORK FOR, FOR STAFF, RIGHT. THAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED IF THERE'S ITEMS THAT, UH, THAT THE BOARD OR THAT THE, THE CITY AS A WHOLE, UH, FEELS LIKE THEY SHOULD BE ADDRESSED. UH, YOU KNOW, WE JUST NEED TO KNOW THAT. UH, SO I, I CAN RUN THROUGH WHAT WE HAVE SO FAR. UM, SO ONE, AND A LOT OF THESE ARE TOPICS THAT COME UP RECURRING, RIGHT? MORE THAN ONCE. UH, SO THE URBAN TRANSITION DISTRICT, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, IS A DISTRICT THAT, UH, ENCOURAGES DENSITY. UH, SO WITH THAT, IT ALSO DOES NOT PERMIT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS. UH, SO IN MUNI CODE, OUR PREVIOUS ORDINANCE AND THE, IN THE UDC, UH, WE PERMIT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS TO A MAXIMUM OF 600 SQUARE FEET. UH, HOW THE UDC READS IS IT PERMITS ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS IN ALL RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS EXCEPT FOR URBAN TRANSITION. UM, THIS IS NOT RADICALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE PREVIOUS ZONING, UH, ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS WERE ALSO NOT PERMITTED IN THE SMALL OR THE SMALL LOT RESIDENTIAL AND THE HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL. UH, BUT THAT, THAT IS JUST SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE RUN INTO A FEW APPLICANTS ARE IN THIS URBAN TRANSITION ZONING DISTRICT AND WISHED TO, UH, BUILD AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT AND PER ORDINANCE WAS NOT PERMITTED. AND WHAT IS UNDER THE ACCESSORY DWELLING? I'M SORRY, WHAT BUSINESSES CAN BE OPENED IN, UH, THERE, THERE WAS NO PROPOSED BUSINESS. THIS IS JUST TALKING ABOUT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS AS A STANDALONE, UM, OR ACTUALLY EVEN AN ATTACHED ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT. MM-HMM . UH, WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED IN THOSE ZONING DISTRICTS. MM-HMM . UM, SO TO, TO REPEAT WHAT YOU JUST SAID, I THINK, UH, RIGHT NOW A CODE SAYS THAT WE ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE THEM IN CERTAIN, BUT THE MUNI CODE DID NOT, AM I REVERSED HERE? SO MUNI CODE PERMITTED, UH, ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS IN RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS EXCEPT FOR SMALL LOT RESIDENTIAL, HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL AND MOBILE HOME. AND THAT WAS THE MUNI CODE THAT WAS PREVIOUS ORDINANCE, WHICH WAS OUR PREVIOUS CODE SYSTEM. MM-HMM . RIGHT. AND SO NOW CURRENTLY THE UDC ALLOWS THEM IN ALL DISTRICTS BESIDES THE URBAN TRANSITION. OKAY. OKAY. UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S KINDA THE ONE WHERE, SO THEY, IN, IN, IN MOBILE HOME, THEY ALLOW THAT THE PREVIOUS MANUFACTURE HOME DISTRICT ALLOW, UM, DID NOT PERMIT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS. BUT WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M ASKING IS WHAT BUSINESSES YOU, WHAT BUSINESS CAN YOU OPEN UNDER ACCESSORY DWELLING? UM, NONE. I THINK IT'S JUST ON RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS. OKAY. LIKE IF YOU HAD AN ACCESSORY BUILDING IN 600 SQUARE FEET. OH, SO LIKE A, THE MAXIMUM, YEAH, LIKE A SHADOW. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND A DWELLING UNIT IS A DWELLING UNIT IS A HABITABLE STANDALONE STRUCTURE. RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS WONDERING. WE LIMIT THEM TO 600 SQUARE FEET AND THE, THAT THAT'S CORRECT. THAT'S RELATIVELY COMMON FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS. BUT HEAVENS AND ATORY, I'M SORRY, THAT'S, UH, IT'S NOT VERY BIG FOR A ACCESSORY DING. MM-HMM. YEAH. NOT FOR THAT. THIS IS NOT THE PRIMARY DWELLING, BUT YEAH. NOT BIG TO ME. MM-HMM. WELL, I WAS THINKING SO THAT, THAT WAS THE SAME RESTRICTION IN THE PREVIOUS ORDINANCE AS WELL. TWO BEDROOMS. NO, IT'S NOT A HOUSE. I'M THINK ABOUT THAT ON THE, I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I'M THINKING ABOUT LIKE, IF YOU OWN, SAY YOU HAD A ONE ACRE LOT IN DICKINSON, THERE ARE QUITE FEW, AND YOU WANTED A BARN AND YOU WANTED TO PUT A, A SHOP IN YOUR BACK AREA. IT COULDN'T BE MORE THAN 600 SQUARE FEET. NO. THE, UH, A ACCESSORY STRUCTURE CAN BE MORE THAN 600 SQUARE FEET. BUT IF IT'S A DWELLING UNIT, THAT'S WHEN IT RESTRICTS THE 600 SQUARE FEET WHEN IT'S LIVABLE STANDALONE. OH, OKAY. OH, OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO LIKE A MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITE, LIKE A MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITE. THERE YOU GO. 600 SQUARE, THAT'S WHAT I, RIGHT. BASICALLY AIR CONDITIONING. WELL IF IT'S AIR CONDITION, KITCHEN, BATHROOM, UH, GOT IT. HABIT SPACE. THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING. I UNDERSTAND, UNDERSTAND. I WAS MISUNDERSTOOD. I GOT YOU. I GOT YOU. YEAH. AH, SO THAT, OKAY. ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, DWELLING UNITS HAVE SOMETHING BIGGER THAN THAT. NO, I GET YOU'VE DONE IT. I GAVE YOU, IF I MIGHT SPEAK ON THAT, I'VE HAD SEVERAL PEOPLE COME IN, UH, LOOKING TO DO IT. UH, MOTHER-IN-LAW'S QUARTERS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. MM-HMM . MOST OF THE TIME IT COMES INTO AROUND A THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT COMFORTABLE SPACE TO BE ABLE TO PUT LIKE A TWO BEDROOM MM-HMM . AND, [00:35:01] UM, THE WAYS TO GET AROUND THAT IS TO PUT LIKE A FORTE, A PORCH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YEAH, YEAH. OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO ATTACH THE TWO, WHICH STRUCTURALLY AND, UM, AESTHETICALLY, BUT MAKE IT UNAPPEALING, YOU KNOW. YEAH. AND, UH, SO THAT'S ONE OF, TO MENTION THAT BECAUSE I PROBABLY ONE YEAR THAT THEY KIND OF GET TURNED AWAY BECAUSE OF THE SIZE. RIGHT. THAT'S COOL. INTERESTING. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO I'M, I'M UP TO SPEED ON THAT. AND THAT IS, YEAH. SO, SO ANYWAY, THIS IS ONE OF THE ONES WHERE WE'RE KIND OF LIKE, THIS IS, UM, THIS FITS IN THE PLANNING GOAL, THIS FITS IN THE STAFF GOAL, BUT DOES THIS FIT FOR DICKINSON? UH, THAT'S A HARD CALL FOR STAFF TO MAKE. RIGHT? UH, SO THIS, THAT'S WHY WE LOOK FOR INPUT ON, ON STUFF LIKE THIS BECAUSE THE FACTS OF WHY IT WAS ADOPTED THIS WAY MAKES SENSE. UM, UH, AS WE KNOW, THE UDC WAS NOT NECESSARILY CREATED BY PEOPLE FROM DICKINSON. UH, SO, SO THAT'S WHY WE WOULD LIKE TO OFFER THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR INPUT ON THIS ONE. SORRY. WE ALL LAUGH SO HARD ON THAT MAN. . YES, WE KNOW. OKAY. UM, SO FORGIVE ME TRAVIS, TO REPEAT AGAIN. SO YOU'RE INTERESTED IN PUTTING THIS ON THE AGENDA FOR THE NEXT ONE? POTENTIALLY. I'M INTERESTED IN DISCUSSING, UH, 'CAUSE I DON'T HAVE A PROPOSED RESOLUTION. THERE'S MANY, UH, WE COULD PERMIT, YOU KNOW, ACCESSORY DELLING UNITS IN THIS ZONING DISTRICT OUTRIGHT NO RESTRICTIONS OR, UM, WELL OR NOT. UH, 'CAUSE LIKE I SAID, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY VASTLY THE SAME REQUIREMENT WAS IN THE PREVIOUS ORDINANCE FOR THESE HIGH DENS ZONING DISTRICTS. UH, WHAT MAYBE I COULD SPEAK TO IS THAT THERE WERE LESS PROPERTIES ZONED TO THESE HIGH DENSITY ZONING DISTRICTS PREVIOUSLY THAN THERE ARE NOW. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YES. YEAH. THAT WAS KIND OF THE POINT I WAS MAKING BEFORE ABOUT TRYING TO SHOEHORN AS MANY PEOPLE INSIDE OUR CITY LIMITS AS POSSIBLE. I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH THAT. MM-HMM . UM, ACCESSORY BUILDINGS WOULD BE, UH, THE LOT ITSELF AND THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS WOULD, UH, DICTATE WOULD YEAH. YOU KNOW, BE ALL THAT'S NEEDED. I WOULD THINK. I MEAN, YOU CAN'T, JUST, WHAT THEY WERE SAYING IS BOTTOM LINE, WHATEVER, YOUR LOT IS, EVERY LOT HAS SETBACK AREAS. EVERY LOT HAS EASEMENTS. I DON'T THINK NEED ANOTHER THINK PUTTING LIMITATIONS ON A PERSON'S PERSONAL PROPERTY. I UNDERSTAND. I I, I'LL ALWAYS REINFORCE THE SETBACK AREAS AND THE EASEMENTS AND ALL THIS STUFF THAT'S MANDATED. YOU GOTTA HAVE A, GOTTA HAVE A SURVEY. YEAH. BUT I, I'M TRYING TO THINK OF A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT SCENARIOS WHERE THERE WE COULD PUT OURSELVES AT RISK IN A, I'M NOT REALLY FEELING IT, UH, PERTAINING TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT COULD YOU PUT IN YOUR BACKYARD? TWO MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITES TWO 600 SQUARE FOOT MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITES. WE, WE ONLY PERMIT ONE A DU. YEAH. YOU KNOW, I I GUESS THAT MY, WHAT IF MY WIFE'S MOM COME LIVE WITH ME TOO? SO TWO MOTHER-IN-LAWS. YEAH. I, I GUESS I DON'T SEE THE NEED TO PUT ANOTHER LAYER WHEN THERE'S ALREADY REQUIREMENTS WITH REGARD TO, UH, THE LOTS AND, AND ALL, AND THE BUILDING AND EVERYTHING ELSE. SO I GUESS I SHOULD BE SPECIFIC THAT THE, THE TOPIC IS ALLOWING THEM OR NOT. 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW THE URBAN TRANSITION DISTRICT DOES NOT ALLOW THEM AT ALL, REGARDLESS OF THE SQUARE FOOT OF THE PLACEMENT OF THE LOT. UM, WELL THEN I WOULD SAY I AM IN FAVOR OF ALLOWING THEM. YEAH. CORRECT. UH, I NOW SEEM TO HAVE MORE OF A QUESTION ABOUT THE LIMITATIONS ON 'EM MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE OF THE SQUARE FOOT. YEAH. OKAY. AND NOW YOU'RE TELLING ME THE MUNI CODE HAD THE SAME RULE. MM-HMM . 600 SQUARE FOOT. I NEVER RAN INTO IT IN YEAH. A LONG TIME. SO THAT IS KIND OF TRICKY IN AN URBAN TRANSITION AREA THOUGH. I MEAN, THAT'S A DIFFERENT, IT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE, ISN'T IT? WELL, THE URBAN TRANSITION THOUGH, THAT'S WHERE YOU HAVE MULTIPLE YEAH, WELL THAT'S WHERE THE URBAN TRANSITION, I, I, I CAN'T SPEAK HOW MUCH, I DON'T LIKE THAT ZONE WHERE IT IS AGAIN. EXACTLY. IN THEIR SCENARIO RIGHT HERE, YOU GOT A A, A STRIP MALL ON FIVE 17. THE BACKSIDE OF IT, WHICH HAS BEEN RESIDENTIAL FOR SINCE WE ZONED, IS NOW URBAN TRANSITION, WHICH MEANS, OR LET ME BACK THAT UP. MY APOLOGIES. CURRENTLY IT IS ZONED, I KEEP GETTING THIS WRONG, IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED AS AUTOCENTRIC. SO THAT SAYS THAT THE BACKSIDE OF THOSE BUILDINGS COULD HAVE BUSINESSES ON THEM. AM I CORRECT? AUTOCENTRIC PERMITS? YEAH. YEAH. COMMERCIAL. AND THAT IS ON THE BACKSIDE. THIS IS A FULL, UH, BLOCK BEHIND A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT WHERE THERE'S RESIDENTS YEAH. SINGLE PHONE AND NOW THEY'RE WANTING TO PUT A, A DUPLEX IN IT OR, OR WHATEVER. AND I UNDERSTAND, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, TO ME, THAT AREA IS RESIDENTIAL IN ONE FORM OR FASHION, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER MANY DIFFERENT WAYS WE WANNA SLICE IT, WHETHER IT'S, UH, FOURPLEXES, DUPLEXES OR SINGLE [00:40:01] FAMILY HOMES, WHATEVER, IT'S RESIDENTIAL IS WHAT IT SHOULD BE. AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE, UH, YEAH, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT I WAS SAYING. I'M NOT GOING THERE. BUT IN AN URBAN TRANSITION, IT'S KIND OF TRICKY. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. IT'S, IT'S TRICKY WITH THE OUTBUILDINGS, RIGHT? YEAH. I MEAN, I THINK, UH, LIKE A SCENARIO COULD ENSUE WHERE, HEY, YOU HAVE A MULTIPLEX WHO NOW WANTS TO BUILD AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT ON THE SAME PROPERTY. YEAH. THEORETICALLY BY ORDINANCE IN THE ZONING DISTRICT. THAT WOULD BE PERMITTED IF WE ALLOWED ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS IN THAT ZONING DISTRICT. WHICH IT ISN'T ALLOWED NOW. CURRENTLY. YES, MA'AM. OKAY. OKAY. AND I CAN SEE KIND OF WHY IT'S NOT IN, IN THAT DISTRICT. AND WHAT WOULD BE THE SCENARIO? I MEAN, IS IT LIKE IF YOU'RE BUILDING A SAY FOR INSTANCE, LIKE YOU SAID, A, A DUPLEX AND YOU WANNA BUILD STORAGE FOR THE RESIDENTS THERE, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? SOMETHING LIKE THAT? NO, I, I'M TALKING ABOUT A, A SEPARATE STRUCTURE THAT IS HABITABLE, THAT'S LIVING. SEE, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. 600 FOOT, 600 SQUARE FOOT APARTMENT BEHIND THE QUADPLEX. NO, THAT WOULD BE RIGHT. SO, SO THAT IS, BUT I'M GOING WHO WOULD DO THAT? WELL, I GUESS IT COULD BE AN EFFICIENCY APARTMENT OF SOME PART, BUT YEAH. I'M, I'M FOR LETTING IT STAY OUT OF, OF THAT DISTRICT. YEAH. YOU KNOW? YEAH. SO IT CERTAINLY MAKES SENSE FOR, FOR NEW DEVELOPMENTS AND FOR EXISTING, UH, YOU KNOW, DUPLEXES OR MORE DENSE DEVELOPMENTS. UH, I GUESS THE ISSUE WE RUN INTO MORE OFTEN IS THAT THERE ARE EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, UH, THAT COME IN AND REQUEST TO BUILD A, A ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT. AND WE HAVE TO DENY THAT REQUEST BECAUSE IT'S NOT PERMITTED IN THE URBAN TRANSITION ZONE BECAUSE LOTS BIG ENOUGH THAT THEY, THEY WANNA BUILD SOMETHING LIKE MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. RIGHT. AND YOU'RE SAYING THEY WOULD BE TURNED DOWN. CORRECT. IT'S NOT PERMITTED IN THAT ZONING DISTRICT. YES, SIR. YEAH. WHY DON'T, UH, WE ASKED TRAVIS TO COME UP WITH A PROPOSED CHANGES FOR US TO CONSIDER AND ACT ON. 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, THE NUMBER OF SQUARE FEET NEED TO BE CHANGED PROBABLY. AND THE FACT THAT IT SHOULD BE ALLOWED PROBABLY SHOULD HAPPEN. UH, MAYBE HE COULD COME UP WITH A PROPOSAL PROPOSED CHANGES. WE, THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. BUT I, I JUST WANNA MAKE SOMETHING CLEAR. URBAN TRANSITION MEANS THAT YOU'RE MULTI MULTIFAMILY. MULTIFAMILY. MM-HMM . SO WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE A YOU KNOW, YOUR HOUSE OR WHATEVER. AND THEN YOU WANNA PUT A MOTHER-IN-LAW THERE. YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT YOU'VE ALREADY BUILT THIS SUPPO, HOPEFULLY NICE DUPLEX. NOW YOU WANNA PUT SOME OTHER THING THAT PEOPLE ARE GONNA LIVE IN BEHIND YOU. YEAH, THAT'S TRUE. THINK ABOUT THAT. CAN YOU PUT A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, AN URBAN TRANSITION? THINK ABOUT, NO, THINK ABOUT THAT. NO, NO. NOT A NEW HOME. AND SO, SO YOU'RE NO MS. FORTNER, YOU'RE RIGHT ON ONE ON ONE ACCOUNT. UH, HOWEVER, THERE, THERE ARE SITUATIONS WHERE A SINGLE FAMILY HOME IS EXISTING CURRENTLY, UH, BUT HAS BEEN ZONED THIS URBAN TRANSITION. SO, SO THAT, BUT THEY COULD CHANGE. AND THEY DON'T GET GRANDFATHERED. NO. IF A STORM COMES, THEIR, THEIR HOUSE IS GONE, THEY'RE GONE. SO NO, NO. EVEN WORSE YET, YOU'VE LIVED IN A RESIDENTIAL ZONE YOUR WHOLE LIFE AND WE CHANGED THE UDC AND JUST PUT YOU IN A NEW CODE AND YOU DECIDE YOU WANT TO BUILD A MOTHER-IN-LAW BUILDING ON THE BACK. YOU CAN'T WITHOUT CHANGING, PAYING A $600, YOU KNOW, PERMIT REQUEST AND MODIFICATIONS AND EVERYTHING AND HAVING TO GET YOUR OWN PROPERTY REZONED REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY YEARS IT'S ALREADY BEEN RESIDENTIAL. RIGHT. AM I NOT FAR FROM POINT ON THAT? CORRECT. RIGHT NOW THAT, THAT IS A GOOD POINT. BUT HOW, HOW MANY COULD WE ADD A LITTLE STANDARD TO THAT TO WHERE IT ONLY RE IT ONLY ALLOWS NEW HOMES, RESIDENTIAL HOMES THAT HAVE BEEN THERE PRIOR TO THE ZONE CHANGE TO ALLOW THE A DU, UH, SO WE COULD, WE COULD ADD SOMETHING TO PERMIT, UH, AN A DU ON LOTS THAT HAVE A SINGLE FAMILY HOME ONLY. YEAH, YEAH. YEAH. UH, AS FAR AS LIKE MULTI-FAMILY HOMES, I, I GET THE POINT. I CAN SEE THE CONCERNS BIG TIME. BUT THERE'S PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN A SUBDIVISION LIKE THAT, THAT IS A SINGLE FAMILY THAT IF THEY CHOOSE TO NOW, THEY'RE NOT BEING ALLOWED TO. AND IF YOU OWNED, YOU BOUGHT A BEAUTIFUL LOT LIKE THAT AND YOU WANTED TO BUILD A SINGLE FAMILY HOME AND HAVE IT, YOU COULDN'T, THEY WANTED US TO SIGN OFF ON ALL, I THINK MULTIFAMILY WOULD PUT THE LIMITATIONS MORE THAN THE ZONING ITSELF. THAT'S WHY THEY, SO, OKAY. THAT'S, UH, I THINK THAT'S GOOD. I THINK WE CAN, WE CAN WORK WITH THAT A LITTLE BIT TO PERMIT, UH, AN A DU FOR, UH, FOR A SINGLE A LOT THAT HAS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME ON IT. I, I WAS EVEN THINKING ABOUT DUPLEXES. WHAT, WHAT ARE Y'ALL THOUGHTS ON THAT? NO, NO. SINGLE FAMILY. I DON'T SEE WHERE DUPLEX WOULD NEED IT EITHER. MM-HMM. OKAY. I THINK IT WOULD LOOK NO TRASHY. YOU ALREADY GOT TWO FAMILIES. NOW YOU HAVE THREE FAMILIES BECAUSE [00:45:01] USUALLY YOUR DUPLEXES, THEY'RE NOT HAVING MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITES, YOU KNOW, TRAVELING AROUND A LITTLE. THERE'S PARTS OF THE FA UH, PARTS OF THE, OUR COUNTRY WHERE DUPLEXES ARE, PEOPLE BUY A DUPLEX AND THEY LIVE ADJACENT TO ANOTHER FAMILY FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS. TEXAS, WE DON'T REALLY DO THAT. IT'S NOT THAT IF THERE'S A DUPLEX, THERE'S A 99% CHANCE THAT'S A RENTAL IN SOME FORM OR FASHION. MM-HMM . SO IT'S JUST A, A DIFFERENT DIFFERENT CULTURE DOWN HERE IN THAT REGARDS. THAT'S WHY I WOULD SAY I WOULD BE AGAINST IT. FAIR. I'M AGAINST IT. YEAH. ALRIGHT. RENTAL INCOME, IS THAT THE, IS THAT THE ONLY THING, TRAVIS? OH, I, I GOT MORE . I GOT ONE . WELL, COME ON. OKAY. SO WE'RE DONE ON THE, THE A DU STUFF. WE'RE GONNA PERMIT THEM FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AND, UH, I CAN DO SOME RESEARCH ON THE SQUARE FOOT. I, I WOULD TELL YOU THAT 600 SQUARE FOOT IS FAIRLY COMMON. UH, AS FAR AS THE LIMITATION, I'VE, I'VE SEEN 900, UH, I THINK SOME OTHER PLACES. BUT, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY PULL SOME REGULATIONS FROM SURROUNDING CITIES IF Y'ALL ARE INTERESTED IN SEEING THAT. BECAUSE 600 SQUARE FEET, THAT'S LIKE A STUDIO APARTMENT. I MEAN, I'VE, I'VE SEEN, UH, MULTIPLE, A LITTLE TWO FAMILY, I MEAN TWO BEDROOM ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS SINCE I'VE WORKED HERE THAT WERE UNDER THAT 600 SQUARE FEET. SO ONCE YOU GET IN THERE, IT'S A LITTLE BIT BIGGER THAN YOU THINK, BUT IT'S POSSIBLE. NO, I, I KNOW'S A TINY HOME. IT'S SMALL FOR A TWO BEDROOM, LIKE LIVING IN A CLOSET. 24 BY 36 IS WHAT? YEAH. YEAH. TINY. YEAH, IT'S LIKE A TINY HOME. BE AT LEAST A THOUSAND. VERY ORGANIZED. MAYBE IT'S IN LARGE CITY. MAY HAVE PLACES LIKE THAT THAT ARE COMING. YES. TEXAS. WE HAVE, OKAY, COME ON TO STATE MY NAME PLEASE. JUST YOUR NAME AT THIS TIME. YVONNE DEION. 35 25 ELM DRIVE. UH, UH, SPEAKING OF MOTHER-IN-LAW QUARTERS, I LIVE, I HAVE THE, IS IT A DU, DID I SAY THAT CORRECTLY? MM-HMM . UH, I'M IN THE ZONE AND I DO HAVE A MOTHER-IN-LAW'S QUARTERS AND IT STARTED OUT AT 600 SQUARE FEET. AND THEN AFTER IKE, UH, WE BUILT IT TO 900. IT'S OVER 950 SQUARE FEET AND WE'RE, UM, SHORT OF AN ACRE INSIDE THE CITY LIMITS. MM-HMM . SO IT DID WORK. SO I'M FOR IT. JUST CURIOUS, WHAT YEAR DID YOU BUILD THAT? A DU 2008 SQUARE FOOT. WAS THAT BAD? NO, I'M JUST, I'M, I'M JUST COMMISSION. NO, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT PURSUING ANYTHING. NO, NO, NO. YOU BUILT THE ORIGINAL BEFORE IKE, DIDN'T YOU? DID YOU SAY YOU BUILT THE ORIGINAL BEFORE IKE OR HARVEY? THERE WAS ONE. THERE WAS A STRUCTURE THERE, YES. MM-HMM . IT WAS WAY BEFORE IKE. YES. THAT'S HOW WE BOUGHT IT IN 1990. YEAH. SO THEY'RE SAYING THE ORIGINAL BUILDING WAS THERE PRE RIGHT. THE ORIGINAL WAS THERE AND IT WAS JUST, UH, EFFICIENCY. IT WAS AN EFFICIENCY, IT WAS GREAT. BUT IT WAS AFTER IKE THEN AFTER IQ EXPANDED IT? YES. UHHUH. . OKAY. FROM 600. IT WAS AN EFFICIENCY TO 900, 950, ABOUT 950. PRETTY BIG DIFFERENCE IN COMFORT FACTOR AT THAT POINT, YOU THINK? ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. IT WAS GREAT. IT'S STILL THERE. ANYBODY WANNA BUY A HOUSE? I'M JUST KIDDING. ALL LEGAL . THANK YOU. WELL, THAT, THAT PART'S A GOOD, A GOOD POINT THOUGH. SHE HAS OVER AN ACRE OF LAND. NO, I HAVE SHORT, SHORT OF AN ACRE UNDER AN AC. OKAY. IT'S SHORT. AND YOU STILL MADE IT WORK. STILL A LARGE PIECE OF PROPERTY. YES. I MEAN FOR THE, SO YEAH, YOU CAN PUT A POOL, YOU CAN PUT A GARDEN. YEAH. CHICKENS, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN DO ALL KINDS OF THINGS. I'M JUST, I JUST HAPPEN TO BE HERE AT THE RIGHT TIME TO SAY, YEAH, IT DOES WORK. I'M FOR IT. WE OUGHT TAKE CARE OF OUR PARENTS. YEAH. YOU KNOW, IT'D BE GREAT. PEOPLE ARE DOING THAT A LOT. SO THAT'S GOOD. SO WITH REGARD TO THAT, YOU KNOW, IF AGAIN, BACK TO THE, IF A PROPERTY ALLOWS IT AND ALL THE SETBACKS THAT IT DOES AND EVERYTHING ELSE, THEN I'M NOT SURE I'M, FOR BRINGING IT TO A, A SPECIFIC SQUARE FOOT THAT HAS TO HAPPEN BECAUSE THERE ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS NEED TO BE MET. RIGHT. THE SETBACKS, EVERYTHING ELSE, THERE'S A LOT OF RULES. SO THERE'S A LOT OF RULES. YEAH. SO IN THAT CASE, WHY WOULD WE WANT TO PUT ONE MORE RULE IN THAT? I, I THINK TO THAT POINT, WE, WE COULD END UP WITH MULTIPLE HOMES ON ONE PIECE OF PROPERTY. SO SAY YOU HAVE THREE ACRES, THEY COULD END UP PUTTING 2 3500 SQUARE FOOT HOMES ON IT. WELL, THEY'D HAVE TO COME AND REZONE IT, WOULDN'T THEY? NO, NOT IF THEY CALL IT AN ACCESSORY DING UNIT. YEAH. AND YOUD, AND IF THERE'S NO SQUARE FOOTAGE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? OKAY. OKAY. GOTCHA. DO WE HAVE ANYBODY IN DICKINSON WITH THREE ACRES? REALLY? REALLY? THIS QUESTION ON THE WEST SIDE? MM-HMM . AVENUE L MM-HMM. OH YEAH. WAY DOWN IN THERE. THAT'S THE OTHER SIDE OF DICKINSON. WE COME ON. Y'ALL GOTTA ACCEPT THAT PART TOO. . ALRIGHT. GOTCHA. [00:50:02] WE LIVE AND LEARN MM-HMM . YEAH. OKAY. I WOULD BE WILLING TO ENTERTAIN IF ANYBODY ELSE DIDN'T DISAGREE TO INCREASE THE SIZE OF IT. OKAY. LIKE SHE WAS SAYING, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A 600 SQUARE FOOT AND A 900 SQUARE FOOT IS MASSIVE. MM-HMM . AND THAT'S NOT A, A 3000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE. THAT'S JUST A LIVING SPACE. CERTAINLY. AND SO THAT STRUCTURE I BUILT ON A SINGLE FOUND FAMILY. YEAH. WELL THE STRUCTURE I BUILT WAS 860 SQUARE FEET. RIGHT, RIGHT. AND THAT QUALIFIES AS A POOL HOUSE. YEAH. SO I DON'T THINK I'D WANNA LIVE IN THAT SPACE TOO. OKAY. WHAT ELSE DO YOU HAVE, TRAVIS? MOVE ON. ALRIGHT. UH, SO THIS ONE, IT IS KIND OF THE SAME TICKET WE TOUCHED ON, AND I THINK WE'RE PROBABLY ON THE SAME PAGE. THE URBAN TRANSITION ZONING DISTRICT DOESN'T PERMIT SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. SO WE TALKED ABOUT THAT. UM, I WOULD SAY THAT WE HAVE PROBABLY DENIED, UH, SIX OR SO REQUESTS FOR A PERMIT ON A, UH, URBAN TRANSITION ZONE LOT FOR A SINGLE FAMILY HOME. UM, SO I KNOW, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PREVIOUS ZONING DISTRICTS FOR SMALL LOT AND HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, YOU KNOW, KIND OF HAD THE SAME REQUIREMENTS. UH, BUT LIKE I SAID, THE, THE NUMBER OF PARCELS ZONED THAT WAS LESS. AND, AND NOW WE'RE HERE WE ARE SITTING WITH MORE PARCEL ZONED AS URBAN TRANSITION. UH, HOWEVER, THEY DO NOT PERMIT THE SINGLE FAMILY HOME. UH, SO THAT'S ONE WHERE IT'S, IT'S, IT MAKES SENSE ON THE PLANNING SIDE, UH, BUT WE NEED TO KNOW IF IT MAKES SENSE ON THE DICKINSON SIDE. RIGHT. DOES THAT WORK FOR THE CITY OF DICKINSON? UH, I'M NOT EXACTLY ACTUALLY WORKING AGAINST THE, THE DEVELOPMENT OF OUR COMMUNITY IN SOME CASES. SAY THAT AGAIN, PHIL. I'M SORRY. HE SAYS HE'S DENIED SEVERAL PERMITS RIGHT. SINCE PERMITS, I THINK. YEAH. MM-HMM . FOR APPLICATIONS THAT'S WORKING AGAINST THE DEVELOPMENT OF OUR COMMUNITY. I WOULD CONCUR. YEAH. AND THE, THE ZONING THAT THEY HAD TO ASK FOR BASICALLY ALLOWED FOR MULTI-FAMILY HOMES AND AT THIS URBAN TRANSITION PERIOD OR ZONE RATHER, DOES NOT ALLOW SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. ONLY MULTIFAMILY AND THE ENTIRE SUBDIVISION BACK THERE BY ELM. THAT ENTIRE SUBDIVISION IS ALL SINGLE FAMILY HOMES HAS BEEN SINCE THE SIXTIES AND SEVENTIES. AND NOW, WHILE I'M STILL NOT AGAINST THIS, THIS DUPLEX OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT, BUT AGAIN, IT'S EXACTLY AS YOU SAID, IF AN INDIVIDUAL, IF YOUR FATHER WANTED TO COME UP HERE AND BUILD A HOUSE NEXT DOOR TO YOU, HE LEGALLY COULD NOT, HE COULD NOT LIVE NEXT DOOR TO YOU. AND THE LOTS THEMSELVES HAVE BEEN, I, I JUST CAN'T COMPREHEND WHY THEY WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO BE SINGLE FAMILY DICKINSON BEING, AND I, WHETHER ANYBODY LIKES OR NOT, IT'S A BEDROOM COMMUNITY OF SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. THAT'S THE PRIMARY POINT OF IT. WE HAVE A FEW APARTMENT COMPLEXES. WE HAVE A FEW, QUITE A FEW RENTALS, NOT A LOT OF DUPLEXES, QUADPLEXES. AND I THINK IF PEOPLE WANTED TO BUILD INDIVIDUAL HOMES, THEY SHOULD NOT BE LIMITED BY IT. ANYBODY FEEL FREE TO DISAGREE. I AGREE. SO YOU THINK CONSENSUS WOULD BE TO, UH, PERMIT SINGLE FAMILY HOMES IN URBAN TRANSITION? I THINK SO, YES. UH, ALMOST TO THE POINT OF, I I QUESTIONED THE URBAN TRANSITION WHETHER OR NOT IT SHOULD BECOME NC AND IF ANYBODY WANTED TO HAVE A DUPLEX, THEN IT SHOULD BE OPEN TO NEGOTIATION. MAYBE THEY, THEY CHANGED THE ZONING AT THAT POINT BECAUSE I THINK THE URBAN TRANSITION, EVERY PLACE THAT I SAW ON THE MAP WHERE IT'S LOCATED, UH, AS YOU SAID, THERE'S A LOT MORE LOTS THAT ARE NOW URBAN TRANSITION THAT WERE NOT BEFORE. YEAH. A LOT MORE. I THINK EVERYBODY ON THIS COUNCIL WOULD BE, THIS COMMISSION WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHERE ALL OF THESE LOTS ARE AND MOST OF THOSE LOTS, I BELIEVE, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, TRAVIS, BUT I THINK MOST OF THOSE LOTS ARE TO BE FOUND IN SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. IF I'M, I'M WRONG. THAT'S, YES. I, I DON'T DISAGREE. CHRIS, ARE YOU ABLE TO PULL UP THE ZONING MAP? WHICH AREA? LET'S JUST SEE IT AS A WHOLE. SO THE, THE BROWN COLOR IS THE URBAN TRANSITION. ALL OF THOSE PLACES CANNOT HAVE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES NOW, [00:55:02] IS THAT CORRECT? YES, THAT'S CORRECT. WHICH ONE DO THEY CONSIDER BROWN? YOU MENTIONED NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION AND DUPLEXES. SO DUPLEXES ARE PERMITTED IN NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION EVEN BETTER. MM-HMM . I GUESS IF THEY WANTED A QUADPLEX, FOURPLEX, MULTIFAMILY BEYOND THAT, THEN THEY WOULD NEED SOME KIND OF MM-HMM . AND I WOULD BE ENTERTAINED IN THE RIGHT PLACES. IT MIGHT BE AN IDEA IF, IF I'M LOOKING AT THIS RIGHT. ALL THESE COCOA BROWN LOOKING SPOTS ARE ALL URBAN TRANSITION. CORRECT. YES. SO DISAPPEAR. HOLY COW. EVERYTHING SOUTH OF FIVE 17, YOU GOT QUITE A BIT NORTH OF FIVE 17. YEAH. NO SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, EVEN THOUGH THOSE ARE ALL SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. SOW DIVISIONS OVER THERE. YEAH. MM-HMM . CAN YOU ZOOM ON THE, ALSO THE LETTER, THE DOWNTOWN AREA, , THOSE ARE ALL HOMES BUILT IN THE FORTIES AND FIFTIES. YEAH. SO SPECIFICALLY LIKE DAKOTA AND ILLINOIS AND ALL OTHER OVER THERE. SO WE'RE TALKING A LOT OF THE EAST SIDE. WE'VE DECIDED THAT YES MA'AM. WHY ? THERE WAS, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THIS ISN'T MY UNDERSTANDING, AND I DON'T GO INSIDE OF PEOPLE'S HEADS OFTEN, BUT THERE WAS A PUSH OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS THAT THERE WAS AN UNDERSTANDING OF SOME DEGREE OF AGENDA 21 DENSITY POPULATION BEING, AS IT WERE ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF HOUSTON. WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE AS MUCH CAPACITY FOR HOUSING INSIDE OUR CITY LIMITS AS WE POSSIBLY COULD. AND THAT WAS KIND OF THE GIST OF IT. AM I FAR OFF ON THAT AGAIN, NOT CLIMBING IN SOMEONE'S HEAD. YEAH, NO, YOU'RE NOT. AND AND TO BE HONEST, THAT IS THE, THAT'S THE MINDSET OF THE PLANNING COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE. THE PLANNING COMMUNITY WANTS TO SEE DENSITY, UH, REALLY FOR CITIES IN THE LONG RUN. THAT THAT IS GOOD FOR A CITY AS WELL. IT INCREASES THE TAX BASE, UH, WHICH IS WHAT DICKINSON NEEDS. UM, WHY, WHY, WHY ALL THE EAST SIDE? WHY NOT THE WEST SIDE? SEE, I GUESS THAT'S NOT WHAT THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN INDICATED. HOW MUCH IS ON THE WEST SIDE, MA'AM? THERE'S SOME ON THE WEST SIDE, BUT NOT, NOT MUCH. NOT MUCH. NOT MUCH AT ALL. SEE, THE, THE EAST SIDE REALLY NEEDS SOME HELP AND THAT'S, THAT'S NOT THE HELP THAT IT, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT NEEDS. AND IT ALSO SAYS THE PURPOSE OF THE URBAN TRANSITION ACCOMMODATES AREAS IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE DOWNTOWN. UM, AND YEAH. SO IT'S GONE BEYOND THE DOWNTOWN AREA. I'D LIKE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING IF WE CAN MM-HMM . IF YOU REMEMBER, WE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED THE COUNCIL NOT ADOPT THIS UDC. THAT'S CORRECT. AND THE, THE THING IS REALLY BIGGER THAN THE UDC. THIS IS GONNA HAUNT THIS COMMUNITY FOR YEARS TO COME. MM-HMM . UH, IT IS BIGGER THAN THE UDC. YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. MM-HMM . THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS DESIGNED FOR A CITY MUCH LARGER THAN LAKE CITY. EVEN, EVEN CONSIDERABLY LARGER THAN LAKE CITY. MM-HMM . IT TALKS ABOUT A CITY NEEDS 10 DESTINATIONS AND 10 THINGS TO DO WITHIN EACH DESTINATION. MM-HMM . THAT'S NOT DEENS. THAT, THAT WHOLE THING, THAT WHOLE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PARTIALLY IS DRIVING THE UDC. IT'S DEFINITELY DRIVING ALL THE ZONING. YEAH. BECAUSE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN HAS TO HAVE SPACES FOR LARGE INDUSTRIAL FIRMS THAT WILL NEVER COME TO DICKINSON. THE WHOLE THING IS AN ABORTION AND IT'S NOT GONNA GET BETTER. IT'S GONNA GET WORSE. IT CAN'T BE BANDAIDED, I THINK, I THINK THE COUNCIL, CITY COUNCIL NEEDS TO BACK UP, REDO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ONE THAT FITZ DICKINSON. MM-HMM . AND THAT WILL AUTOMATICALLY GET RID OF THIS ZONING PROBLEM. GO BACK TO WHAT WE HAD WHO WE HAD WAS WORKING WELL, THIS COMMISSION NEVER DENIED, UH, A ZONING CHANGE IF IT MADE SENSE TO THE COMMUNITY AND THE, AND THE APPLICANT. MM-HMM . AND HERE, HERE WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN LIVING HERE FOR 50 YEARS ARE NON-COMPLIANT. MM-HMM . THEY PROBABLY CAN'T SELL THAT HOUSE RIGHT. WITHOUT SPENDING A THOUSAND DOLLARS TRYING TO GET A ZONE CHANGE. WELL, YEAH. THEY MAY NOT BE ALLOWED. YEAH. THEY MAY NOT ALLOW ZONING CHANGE AND UM, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T TAKE A, A LITTLE SQUARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT BIG BROWN AREA AND ZONE ONE A LOT IN THE, IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT AREA. YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T DO THAT. MM-HMM . YOU SHOULDN'T DO IT. YOU, I DON'T DISAGREE. NOT DO IT. AND I, I DON'T, I DON'T ALSO AGREE WITH THE, UH, WITH THE, THE, THE DIRECTION. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT, UH, WELL WHAT WE HAD, UH, BEFORE THE EAST SIDE NEEDS HELP AND THAT'S NOT THE [01:00:01] HELP THAT IT NEEDS. WHAT WE HAD BEFORE, WHEN IT WAS ADOPTED 30 YEARS AGO OR WHENEVER THEY DID THE BEST JOB THEY COULD AND THEY, THEY ACKNOWLEDGED THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS AND EVERYTHING WAS, WAS GOOD. AND ANYTHING THAT DEVIATED FROM THAT, PEOPLE APPLIED FOR AN APPLICATION CHANGE. THEY WERE ALWAYS ALLOWED, UNLESS IT WAS VERY BAD FOR THE COMMUNITY AND, UM, IT WAS WORKING WELL. THIS WHOLE THING IS JUST, JUST COMPLETELY OUTTA SCOPE. AND I REALLY REC, I THINK THAT WE SHOULD RECOMMEND THE CITY COUNCIL REVIEW THIS WHOLE THING FROM THE, FROM THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UDC AND THE ZONING. THE, THE ZONING WILL COMPLETELY CHANGE IF YOU CHANGE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BECAUSE A LOT OF THAT IS DRIVEN BY THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THIS, THIS WAS DRIVEN, THIS WAS DRIVEN TO SPEND MONEY, BY THE WAY, FOR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. IT'S IN THE CITY CHARTER TO HAVE ONE. OKAY. YOU NEED ONE. YOU HAVE TO NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. THE FIRST ONE EVER COMPLETED WAS IN 2016. OKAY. AND SINCE THEN, I THINK WE'RE ON OUR THIRD OR FOURTH ITERATION AND EACH ONE OF 'EM HAS COST THE CITY ABOUT THREE OR $400,000 TO GET 'EM COMPLETED. THE FIRST ONE DIDN'T BECAUSE WE WENT TO, I WAS TEXAS A AND MI WENT WITH, SO THE FIRST ONE DIDN'T BECAUSE I WENT TO THE, ALONG WITH WHOEVER WAS HERE, I FORGET EVEN WHO WAS HERE. YEAH. AND WE ALL WENT TO CLASSES, UH, FOR ONE YEAR AND THEN AS A RESULT, UH, A AND M UH, DID IN KIND FOR US. YEAH. AND THEY CAME ON. JOHN REWROTE THE WHOLE THING. HUH. THEN JULIE REWROTE THE WHOLE THING. OH. I DON'T KNOW. I'M JUST SAYING WHAT OCCURRED AT THAT DEAL AND THEN AS A RESULT, THEY, THEY DID IN KIND FOR US BECAUSE WE ATTENDED THOSE CLASSES. RIGHT. SO, UH, BUT, BUT WE NEED A PLAN TO, A PLAN THAT FITS THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF DICKENS. YEAH. NOT ONE THAT FITS THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF SOME OTHER COMMUNITY. I AGREE. WELL, THE POINT IN LINE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING RIGHT THERE IS THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF DICKINSON ACROSS THE BOARD TODAY. THERE'S MAJOR EMPHASIS ON FUTURE PLANNING. AND DON'T GET ME WRONG, I GET IT. THE, THE RIGHT IT'S GOING TO DEVELOP, IT'S GOING TO CHANGE. BUT THERE'S A COMPLETELY RADICAL DIFFERENT VISION FOR WHAT THIS CITY'S GONNA LOOK LIKE IN 20 YEARS VERSUS WHAT IT DOES TODAY. AND I'M GONNA GO WITH THE WORD RADICAL COMES TO MIND. YEAH. I MEAN, HIGH END HOTELS, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T REALLY SEE THAT IN DICKINSON, BUT, UM, UM, I LOST SO ALONG WITH THAT, PHILIP, I AGREE WITH YOU. WHY DON'T WE, TRAVIS, INSTEAD OF DOING THIS, WHAT WE'RE DOING, RIGHT. THE SECOND, WHY DON'T WE ASK FOR A MEETING SO THAT WE CAN TALK, UH, ALTOGETHER AND SEE WHAT REALLY THEY WANNA RETAIN AND WHAT MAKES SENSE. A MEETING WITH COUNCIL. YEAH. MEETING SHOP. YEAH. UH, THAT, THAT COULD BE ARRANGED. CERTAINLY. AND THEN WE DON'T PIECEMEAL, LIKE PHILLIP WAS SAYING, WE, WE LOOK AT THE, THE HOLE AND SEE REALLY, YOU KNOW, WHERE, WHAT DIRECTION MAKES SENSE. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THERE'S A HUGE BENEFIT. I'M NOT REALLY EVEN SURE HOW LONG I'VE BEEN ON THE COUNCIL, BUT IT'S ABOUT THE SAME. ALL OF US HERE ON THIS COMMISSION. WE'VE NEVER, I HAVE NOT HAD A JOINT SESSION WITH COUNCIL SINCE I'VE BEEN ON HERE. MM-HMM . ASK FOR. YEAH. AND I WOULD SAY, I THINK THERE, GLAD A COUNCILMAN HAS ARRIVED. GOOD TO SEE YOU, SIR. I THINK THERE IS A HUGE BENEFIT BECAUSE IT IS GOOD THAT THERE'S, THERE'S FIVE OF US SITTING HERE RIGHT NOW, SIX TO SEVEN TOTAL IN THE GROUP. WE DO WORK AT THE PLEASURE OF THE COUNCIL AND WE ALL HAVE VERY STRONG OPINIONS I THINK ON THIS. I DON'T THINK WE'RE ALL, ANY OF US THAT FAR FROM EACH OTHER ON WHAT OUR BIG GOALS ARE, BUT WE PROBABLY WOULD BE A HUGE BENEFIT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE SIT DOWN WITH COUNSEL AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE THINK. AND FIND OUT IF THEY SAY WE AGREE OR NO, YOU GUYS ARE WAY OFF TRACK. IF WE'RE WAY OFF TRACK, THEN WE NEED TO GET OUR DIRECTION IN LINE WITH WHAT THEIR EXPECTATIONS ARE OR BE REPLACED. I MEAN, THAT'S BLUNT AND HONEST THE WAY IT WORKS. BUT I WOULD WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE ALL OPERATING TO THE SAME EXPECTATIONS. UH, I'M GONNA SAY IT. SO WE'RE NOT ALL WASTING EACH OTHER'S TIME. I MEAN, WE CAN SIT HERE AND TALK FOR THREE MORE HOURS ABOUT THINGS WE LIKE AND DON'T LIKE AND THEN IT ALL GETS WRITTEN DOWN, GETS TAKEN, UH, COUNSEL, AND THEY GO, THESE PEOPLE ARE NUTS. TOSS IT OUT THE WINDOW. OKAY. I DON'T THINK YOU CAN FIX THIS PRO WITH BANDAIDS. NO, I AGREE WITH YOU. I'M INCLINED TO AGREE WITH YOU, SIR. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE THEN? CAN WE DO THAT? IT DOES. OKAY, GREAT. THEN WE DON'T NEED TO PICK IT NOW. THAT SOUND GOOD, COUNCILMAN? ABSOLUTELY. JOINT MEETING. YEP. OKAY. I'LL MAKE MYSELF AVAILABLE WHENEVER LOUISIANA BE DAMNED. . UH, ALRIGHT. WHAT, UH, SCHEDULING WISE DID, WOULD Y'ALL WANNA SEE THAT ON A SIMILAR DATE AS P AND Z OR DAY OF THE WEEK? I THINK THE BETTER QUESTION IS THE COUNCIL'S PLEASURE FOR THE MOST PART. YEAH, WE'LL GET BOTH. OKAY. I MEAN, WE, WE STILL HAVE OUR TASK TO DO AND I THINK, I THINK WE HAD A PERIOD OF TIME WHERE WE DID NOT DO A WHOLE LOT AS A COMMISSION. AND I THINK WE'VE GOT HUGE OPPORTUNITIES IN FRONT OF US. AGAIN, MAKING SURE THEY'RE IN LINE WITH WHAT EXPECTATIONS THE COUNCIL ARE. OKAY. [01:05:02] ALRIGHT, WELL I WILL ARRANGE THAT IF Y'ALL HAVE ANYTHING ELSE. SUPER. I MOVE FOR ADJOURNMENT THEN. . DO I HAVE A SECOND? I A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. MEETING ADJOURNED. I THANK YOU ALL VERY, VERY MUCH FOR COMING TONIGHT. THANK YOU ALL. I. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.